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This was WH40K back when it was Awesome

Started by RPGPundit, March 20, 2012, 01:58:31 PM

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Machinegun Blue

Quote from: jadrax;523357The 2 and 3rd edition of WFB has Brettonians as Arthurian Knights, indeed the only book not to present them that way was the first edition of WFRP.

That's not how I remember it. In 3e and 4e the Brettonians were generic 100 Years War French. The Arthurian stuff didn't start until 5e when they got an army book (I don't know about 2e).

Rincewind1

Quote from: jadrax;523357The 2 and 3rd edition of WFB has Brettonians as Arthurian Knights, indeed the only book not to present them that way was the first edition of WFRP.

Really? I thought 2e had them still as the dirty Frenchmen. I remember hearing about the "Random tables rolled before battle", where if you played Bretonnia, it may turn out a unit of your Knights wouldn't ride because of syphilis :D. But that's probably just a rumour.

Thanks for the information.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

jadrax

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;523374That's not how I remember it. In 3e and 4e the Brettonians were generic 100 Years War French. The Arthurian stuff didn't start until 5e when they got an army book (I don't know about 2e).

Now a conversation about how much 'generic 100 Years War French' and Arthurian knights differ could be interesting. There was a definite 'cleaning up' of the Bretonnians during the 4th/5th edition. But my point was more that their none of the WFB versions is close to the vision of France on the verge of revolution presented by WFRP1.

Machinegun Blue

#48
Quote from: jadrax;523429Now a conversation about how much 'generic 100 Years War French' and Arthurian knights differ could be interesting. There was a definite 'cleaning up' of the Bretonnians during the 4th/5th edition. But my point was more that their none of the WFB versions is close to the vision of France on the verge of revolution presented by WFRP1.

That's a good point. I'm willing to say that GW during the early 90s weren't at all concerned that setting details didn't entirely match up between the wargame and the RPG. They had different goals.

Rincewind1

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;523441That's a good point. I'm willing to say that GW during the early 90s weren't at all concerned that setting details didn't entirely match up between the wargame and the RPG. They had different goals.

Definitely.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Machinegun Blue

Quote from: Rincewind1;523444Definitely.

That could be the problem with 40k. It never had a full RPG treatment early on. Rogue Trader had RPG elements but it was just a miniatures skirmish game. The setting development over the last two decades for 40k was entirely with wargaming in mind. I can see how the recent RPGs might have some tone problems.

Rincewind1

Quote from: Machinegun Blue;523448That could be the problem with 40k. It never had a full RPG treatment early on. Rogue Trader had RPG elements but it was just a miniatures skirmish game. The setting development over the last two decades for 40k was entirely with wargaming in mind. I can see how the recent RPGs might have some tone problems.

Something tells me that 40k was started as a bit of a joke (I think I wrote that earlier?). At the time, nobody knew that one of the more successful game franchises (DoW is pretty successful) would be based off it, causing W40k to curbstomp WFB.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Ghost Whistler

Quote from: Rincewind1;523449Something tells me that 40k was started as a bit of a joke (I think I wrote that earlier?).

Well, no.
"Ghost Whistler" is rated PG-13 (Parents strongly cautioned). Parental death, alien battles and annihilated worlds.

Simlasa

#53
I'm looking at my copy of Warhammer Armies for WFB 3e and the Bretonnians in that still seem like they're pretty much in HYW mode. I don't get an Arthurian feel from it at all (the knights are not all decked out in tournament gear and the bulk of the force seems to be conscripted peasants).
Not there is a lot of setting detail there to begin with (this was before the dedicated army books came in)
I agree that they're different than the WFRP Brets too... and they way they were presented in the Warhammer books at the time, which has a darker, more decadent feel to it.
We only started playing WFB last summer, so my only experience is with 2e and 3e... most of my ideas of the setting come from WFRP 1.

It have been interesting to see what divergence an RPG of original Rogue Trader would have taken from the wargame version and what it became. I'm guessing it would have felt a lot more like Star Wars.

EDIT: When I write 'Arthurian feel' I mean more colorful pageantry, shinier armor, bigger hats, a whole lot more magic smeared all over everything.

Rincewind1

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;523450Well, no.

Well, yes.

Quote from: Simlasa;523469I'm looking at my copy of Warhammer Armies for WFB 3e and the Bretonnians in that still seem like they're pretty much in HYW mode. I don't get an Arthurian feel from it at all (the knights are not all decked out in tournament gear and the bulk of the force seems to be conscripted peasants).
Not there is a lot of setting detail there to begin with (this was before the dedicated army books came in)
I agree that they're different than the WFRP Brets too... and they way they were presented in the Warhammer books at the time, which has a darker, more decadent feel to it.

I'd say that 4e Bretonnia was a mix between England and France of 100 years war - the longbowmen AND the heavy cavalry.

Best of both worlds!
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Simlasa

#55
Quote from: Rincewind1;523449Something tells me that 40k was started as a bit of a joke (I think I wrote that earlier?).
I'm not sure how you mean that. It was intentionally funny, but they very much meant for it to be a playable game. The rules are a bit kludgy in how they're laid out but they're functional... at least at the small skirmish level intended. Really, it's more like the current crop of 'Adventure Games' such as .45 Adventures and Chaos In Carpathia... small scenario-driven games that share a lot of elements with RPGs.

IIRC Rick Priestly had originally planned for RT to be an RPG... there are mentions of it years earlier... but then was told to make a wargame out of it... so it had a bit of a personality complex from the start.

Rincewind1

Quote from: Simlasa;523476I'm not sure how you mean that. It was intentionally funny, but they very much meant for it to be a playable game. The rules are a bit kludgy in how they're laid out but they're functional... at least at the small skirmish level intended. Really, it's more like the current crop of 'Adventure Games' such as .45 Adventures and Chaos In Carpathia... small scenario-driven games that share a lot of elements with RPGs.

IIRC Rick Priestly had originally planned for RT to be an RPG... there are mentions of it years earlier... but then was told to make a wargame out of it... so it had a bit of a personality complex from the start.

I meant it as in "Hey guys, let's take the shit from Warhammer game and think what'd happen if it'd be like, in space".
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Ladybird

Quote from: Rincewind1;523331Oh please, Bretonnia's where  the bitches' at ;). I admit that RPG wise, I don't like the turn Bretonnia took - but I like them in Battle. Henceforth, I liked it when Battle moved on but RPG was still based on 2 - 3e of WFB.

There's plenty of room for multiple interpretations of Warhammer. GW even sign off on it themselves - Blood Bowl and Warhammer Online are both set in their own timelines.

(I'd actually like to play an RPG set in the BB timeline.)
one two FUCK YOU

RPGPundit

Quote from: J Arcane;522952I'm working a little experiment in old-school gonzo SF.  Should be ready to announce in the next week or so.  

Based on your OP images, I think what I've got cooking will be right up your alley.

Well, good to hear. I'll look forward to seeing the results.

RPGPundit
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Quote from: Rincewind1;523331You know the way out. The big white "x" in the upper right corner.

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