Quote from: jhkim;558907has sexy women =/= sexist

The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers, say, is a sexist piece of shit.  Also, Richard Tucholka made a rip-off game of MWWG called "Beach Bunny Bimbos with Blasters" that is also a sexist piece of shit.  (Amusing footnote: In the revised MWWG's edition, Greg Porter literally put "Richard Tucholka" as one of the monsters - as a worthless Midwest game designer with pitiful stats.)  

"This is what's called an 'in-joke', folks."

QuoteI haven't followed the original thread regarding Desborough, so I wouldn't know about that.  However, I wouldn't call the original MWWG "inoffensive".  Satire, in my opinion, should be offensive.  It's just offensive in a cool way, as opposed to suggesting that rape is an awesome plot twist to bring into your RPG play.

Quite.
Of course one of my personal axioms is "Sarcasm is wasted on the people who most deserve it."

JG

Quote from: jhkim;558830Really, that's probably because most people aren't familiar with the original Macho Women With Guns.  However, I own it and have run it several times and had a blast.  It is not problematic, in my opinion, and is in fact truly satirical.  It was cool playing macho powerful women characters who shoot large holes in sexist jerks.  

http://jhkimrpg.livejournal.com/tag/macho%20women%20with%20guns

http://www.darkshire.net/jhkim/rpg/machowomenwithguns/

I don't own the d20 version and so can't speak definitively.  However, it seemed to me from browsing that the d20 version lost the satirical spirit of the original that actually poked fun at sexism in geek media.  On the basis of the change of tone, I decided not to buy it.

D20 MWWG is definitely satirical but much less subtle: Much more Church and America bashing and for the most part a lot more of a juvenile feel: Those changes are not why I don't like it though: I don't like it because it's D20 Modern: The prime example of how "simplifications" of D20 always make it 200x more complicated!

It also has a foreword from the original creator that gives his endorsement.

CEO, Comedy Central: Take Daniel Tosh off the air

Quote from: Women's Right PetitionDaniel Tosh, offensive jokester extraordinaire, crossed the line a few days ago in a comedy club. During a skit in which he made jokes about rape, a young woman stood up in protest of the offensive jokes. In response, Daniel Tosh "joked" about how "funny" it would be if she were to be raped by "like five guys" right then. His jokes continued and the laughter in the club grew so loud that the young woman had to flee in fear.

This takes offensive joking to the next level. Tosh did not simply make jokes about rape, which is bad enough as it is, but he used his jokes in a threatening way that a young woman ran away to maintain her safety. He used his jokes to silence a person who was concerned with the nature of them.

This is not a man that deserves to be revered and aired daily. He is tasteless, offensive in nature, and proud of it. There should be no pride in humiliating and scaring other people. His fauxpology on Twitter was hardly sincere and only serves to show us how much he cares about himself, but not for other people. Bad things do happen, and yes, you CAN make jokes about them, but that doesn't mean you should. And it certainly doesn't mean that you get to decide if anyone should be offended by them.

This petition is to get Daniel Tosh and his show, Tosh.0, taken off the air permanently. No new episodes, no reruns, no comedy specials. Period.

Quote from: jhkim;558907No way!!  As far as I know, Greg Porter is great.  The original Macho Women With Guns is a great game that features sexy women as PCs but is in no way sexist.  The PCs in MWWG are cool and awesome, and I had a great time running it.  

has sexy women =/= sexist

The Slayer's Guide to Female Gamers, say, is a sexist piece of shit.  Also, Richard Tucholka made a rip-off game of MWWG called "Beach Bunny Bimbos with Blasters" that is also a sexist piece of shit.  (Amusing footnote: In the revised MWWG's edition, Greg Porter literally put "Richard Tucholka" as one of the monsters - as a worthless Midwest game designer with pitiful stats.)

Win! I'm not sure it would be a game our group would go for, but it did sound like fun, and I wouldn't mind giving it a shot at a con.

There's a difference between turning the offensiveness up to 12 to call it out, and just being offensive with your only defence being "HA HA FREE SPEECH! ART! REDUCTIO AD ABSURDUM! STOP CENSORING MEEEEEEEEE". Not quite sure I could lay my finger on it - it's another of those fuzzy areas - but it's certainly there.

Quote from: Rum Cove;558960CEO, Comedy Central: Take Daniel Tosh off the air

I saw that article linked on the faces book. It's a poor show. Dealing with hecklers is an important skill for a stand-up comedian, and "wouldn't it be funny if five people assaulted you right now" isn't a good example. Aberdonians fucking love to heckle; I wouldn't recommend him trying the same comeback here.

I actually agree that rape shouldn't be off the table for stories - one of my favourite books, Beauty, has a very important rape scene - but it's not a guaranteed way to write a great story; it shouldn't be a go-to "Characterisation!!!" device. I just don't want to be on the same side as some people.

It's like spices. If you've got a decent curry, you can make it a great curry by adding the right spices. But add the same spices to a different curry, and you'll absolutely ruin it.

Quote from: Rum Cove;558960fauxpology

That's my new word for the day, supplanting the redoubtable sharny.

Quote from: Rum Cove;558960CEO, Comedy Central: Take Daniel Tosh off the air

Boo hoo.

That chick deserved every bit of ridicule she got. You don't ever, ever, ever heckle a comedian when they're on stage.

I'm also left wondering if she ever laughed at Richard Pryor, or Eddie Murphy.

Quote from: Declan MacManus;558987Boo hoo.

That chick deserved every bit of ridicule she got. You don't ever, ever, ever heckle a comedian when they're on stage.

Bullshit, he was a shit comediàn and desrved heckling. Comedians arent doing anytbhing special and deserve no special respect if incompetant or retardedly offensive

"Retardedly offensive" is pretty much Daniel Tosh's schtick, though. Was she really not expecting him to be offensive in some way, to someone, during his show? So why did she take offense to that particular rape joke, instead of any of the zillion other offensive jokes about say, mentally challenged people or old people or fat people or whatever else the guy dishes out pretty much on a daily basis?

Not saying that his reaction was right or proper or acceptable in any way, but it feels like there's a part of the story that's missing, here.

Quote from: TristramEvans;559035Bullshit, he was a shit comediàn and desrved heckling. Comedians arent doing anytbhing special and deserve no special respect if incompetant or retardedly offensive

Leaving the relatively quality of the comedian out of it: The other members of the audience paid to be there and watch Tosh (why? I have no idea), and deserve the opportunity to do so. They did not, however, pay to watch some random girl in the audience.

Presumably there comes a point of critical mass, when enough of the paying audience gets upset at the quality of the performance where heckling becomes a valuable tool to express disapproval over the service they have paid for, but one person is not it (unless its a REALLY small audience).

Thus hating on Hecklers is actually about respect for the audiences choice of how to be entertained.

A comedian known for shock insults crosses a line, that causes one person to object.
Said person heckles comedian.
Comedian heckles the person and they leave.
A day in the life of Sam Kinison, Andrew Dice Clay, et al.

But, why petition to take the show off the air?  Was the joke on the show? No.  Petition to have him never play that comedy club again (I can't even type that with a straight face).

Also, looking at the petition, I can't help but call bullshit.  Tosh starts heckling the woman, the audience is roaring with laughter and she "fled in fear", she had to run to "maintain her safety".  Bullshit.  If they hadn't obviously lied, it might have lent some credence, as it stands, this is just pushing a political agenda, any lie told for the right reasons serves the goal of good, etc.

Quote from: Spike;559038Leaving the relatively quality of the comedian out of it: The other members of the audience paid to be there and watch Tosh (why? I have no idea), and deserve the opportunity to do so. They did not, however, pay to watch some random girl in the audience.

Presumably there comes a point of critical mass, when enough of the paying audience gets upset at the quality of the performance where heckling becomes a valuable tool to express disapproval over the service they have paid for, but one person is not it (unless its a REALLY small audience).

Thus hating on Hecklers is actually about respect for the audiences choice of how to be entertained.

Fuck the audience if they don't have the ethical backbone or moral rectitude to not condone that sort of grosse sexism. People who pay to see a kkk wizard give a public speech doñ't deserve to have their entertainment respected any more than a shit who pays for kiddie porn.

Koo koo.

Koo koo.

Koo koo.

Quote from: TristramEvans;559041Fuck the audience if they don't have the ethical backbone or moral rectitude to not condone that sort of grosse sexism. People who pay to see a kkk wizard give a public speech doñ't deserve to have their entertainment respected any more than a shit who pays for kiddie porn.

Draw false equivalencies much?

Quote from: Spike;559045Draw false equivalencies much?

Immorality is immorality.