Quote from: Kevin197;1096393Well I dont like the layout, the art ranges from good to really meh, The overarching plot is not that great and kinda dosent make much sense and ruins a character ive been waiting for information on for almost 10 years. Then there is whats happend to the goblins. A tribe of em are put into the adventure as the main hook (There a good tribe of goblins because reasons) and it just feels weird and forced (In order to make them workable as a good tribe pretty much have to strip out everything that makes Golarion goblins well golarion goblins afterwards they may as well just be halflings into big ear and green paint cosplay)

We knew that Goblins were going good for a year now so of course they have to show up in the first volume.

Anything there about playing a Hell Knight?  What about taking over the citadel, any rules for that or is that vol. 2 stuff?  Which character have you been waiting 10 years for?

Nothing I can see so I assume that's all in book 2 (Although the hellknight thing is in the lost omens world guide or something) and the problem I have with the goblins is basically what I suspected would happen when they announced they were making Goblins a core playable race (To make them work they have to get rid of everything that made them Golarion goblins)

Quote from: Mistwell;1096166Show me any evidence, ...

I heard ICV2 is run by a trio of ancient Hags now. They stopped using correspondence years ago in favor of divination, dream walking and dark magics. I'm sure that has increased the accuracy by a huge factor. [/kidding]

I too am keen to see the evidence. I hope it turns out it's Hags.

Quote from: Kevin197;1096393Well I dont like the layout, the art ranges from good to really meh, The overarching plot is not that great and kinda dosent make much sense and ruins a character ive been waiting for information on for almost 10 years. Then there is whats happend to the goblins. A tribe of em are put into the adventure as the main hook (There a good tribe of goblins because reasons) and it just feels weird and forced (In order to make them workable as a good tribe pretty much have to strip out everything that makes Golarion goblins well golarion goblins afterwards they may as well just be halflings into big ear and green paint cosplay)

Not a fan at all of them suddenly changing Goblins to good guys in their seitting. Especially with textbook Deus Ex Machina. As Kevin197 says it not only feels forced it is really out of character for the setting and how they have portrayed Goblins since they released the core PF 1E.

They expect Goblins to go from being psychotic, sociopathic, bloodthirty, murderous, cannibalistic, backstabbing, untrustworthy, word hating bastards that NO likes in the setting. Even most of the villains because  of what I wrote. To jump on the WOW bandwagon suddenly their is a good tribe because of reasons and feels. Not in my campaign if I ever play PF 2E. It goes against all their setting lore about goblins they have written over the years. If they so badly wanted to include a small underdog race why not Kobolds. At least they are LE in alignment vs completely fucked up in the head to the point that Jack Nicholson character from the Shining look like normal person.

Quote from: sureshot;1096448Not a fan at all of them suddenly changing Goblins to good guys in their seitting. Especially with textbook Deus Ex Machina. As Kevin197 says it not only feels forced it is really out of character for the setting and how they have portrayed Goblins since they released the core PF 1E.

They expect Goblins to go from being psychotic, sociopathic, bloodthirty, murderous, cannibalistic, backstabbing, untrustworthy, word hating bastards that NO likes in the setting. Even most of the villains because  of what I wrote. To jump on the WOW bandwagon suddenly their is a good tribe because of reasons and feels. Not in my campaign if I ever play PF 2E. It goes against all their setting lore about goblins they have written over the years. If they so badly wanted to include a small underdog race why not Kobolds. At least they are LE in alignment vs completely fucked up in the head to the point that Jack Nicholson character from the Shining look like normal person.

Also this is all in Isger as in Goblinblood wars Isger as in half the population killed by goblins Isger. (In there blogs they try to get around this by claiming the Goblins were forced into it by the Hobgoblins so yes they are using the they were only following orders to murder pillage and eat people excuse)

https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Goblinblood_Wars

Quote from: sureshot;1096448They expect Goblins to go from being psychotic, sociopathic, bloodthirty, murderous, cannibalistic, backstabbing, untrustworthy, word hating bastards that NO likes in the setting. Even most of the villains because  of what I wrote. To jump on the WOW bandwagon suddenly their is a good tribe because of reasons and feels. Not in my campaign if I ever play PF 2E. It goes against all their setting lore about goblins they have written over the years. If they so badly wanted to include a small underdog race why not Kobolds. At least they are LE in alignment vs completely fucked up in the head to the point that Jack Nicholson character from the Shining look like normal person.

I dunno.  Look at all the "good" drow characters that have shown up at the table with contrived backstories over the years.

Quote from: Blusponge;1096491I dunno.  Look at all the "good" drow characters that have shown up at the table with contrived backstories over the years.

True yet they also kind of wrote that some a VERY truly small amount rebelled against the ways of the Drow at least in FR.

With also having a goddess for good drow https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Eilistraee as a background element.

With Goblins their was NEVER EVER any indication of a tribe of good goblins let alone any of them having any single damn regret about the actions of their own kind. They were from the start to be truly brutally evil like I posted above. They even hate the written word and have a feat that triggers rage in one with levels of Barbarian https://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/letter-fury-goblin/ . Sure a DM might change them in a background or might allow one as a cohort. Otherwise it is and still is an overly obvious attempt by the Paizo devs to try and draw in the WOW crowd to play PF. Even if it makes no sense at all. With them trying to shoehorn in Goblins as a playable race and hope no one notices (their fans did) and then "wonder" why they are getting called out on it.

From the Pathfinder Reference Document on Goblins: http://legacy.aonprd.com/monsterCodex/goblins.html

We are suddenly supposed to believe in a tribe of good Goblins suddenly exists in Golarion. Sure ok they may exist yet it goes against all their own lore that the devs wrote on the subject.

I kind of agree with the initial post of the OP. Goblins in 3.5 actually looked way better. In Pathfinder they look anything but imo: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?489883-I-Hate-Pathfinder-Goblins

Are they actual capital G Good alignment goblins, or are they goblins that have figured out the concept of "acceptable targets?"

My main understanding is that some tribes in Isger that don't want to be killed anymore have turned their attention towards bandits and the roving undead, the new primary dangers since the war.

So goblins aren't forgiven allies, but they sometimes share an uneasy peace with their neighbors, who are also tired of fighting.

Of course, that is only some tribes.  Mostly they are either still pests at best and/or efforts to live in peace are handled badly/met with violence.

I can imagine how that might have gone...  "The longshanks near the Toothripper tribe don't kill them anymore!  They kill lawout longshanks and re-dead the corpses and get left alone.  We kill lawouts and get left alone!". Then some day later a village wakes up and finds desmembered bandit corpses arranged in festive piles outside their doors, freak out and call for help killing the local goblins.  "That didn't work, back to normal."