I think I just need to watch someone who is good at SW ToM.

  IME, being good at TOM is just being able to spitball it on the fly using common sense.  Worst case, rule slightly in favor of the players instead of argue for 20 minutes over 3 feet has always been a good policy for me.

I'm starting to work on my own extended rules. My current to-do list

• Spelljamming rules - Including variant rules for Helms and "space travel" options in case "Spelljammer" is not the actual game.
• New Class/Prestige Edges: Samurai, Sohei, Kensei, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wu Jen, Cerebremancer
• New Spelljamming/Setting Edges: Spelljammer/Realms-specific setting related Edges
• Ship subsystems: Optional systems/tables for ship-combat, modification.
• Deity Specific Domains and Vows
• Codes of Honor: Lists of various Codes for PC's to follow
• Gear: Spelljammer and cultural specific gear.
• Spelljammer/Other setting Monster conversion

This is my starting list... I'm fairly confident there will be more I'll need to do as I go.

Quote from: tenbones on July 01, 2021, 10:16:09 AM
I'm starting to work on my own extended rules. My current to-do list

• Spelljamming rules - Including variant rules for Helms and "space travel" options in case "Spelljammer" is not the actual game.
• New Class/Prestige Edges: Samurai, Sohei, Kensei, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wu Jen, Cerebremancer
• New Spelljamming/Setting Edges: Spelljammer/Realms-specific setting related Edges
• Ship subsystems: Optional systems/tables for ship-combat, modification.
• Deity Specific Domains and Vows
• Codes of Honor: Lists of various Codes for PC's to follow
• Gear: Spelljammer and cultural specific gear.
• Spelljammer/Other setting Monster conversion

This is my starting list... I'm fairly confident there will be more I'll need to do as I go.

My man, so much stuff is similar to mine. Especially the ship combat. I found a ship-combat system I like, but that wil take some work to convert.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 02, 2021, 02:10:04 PM

Quote from: tenbones on July 01, 2021, 10:16:09 AM
I'm starting to work on my own extended rules. My current to-do list

• Spelljamming rules - Including variant rules for Helms and "space travel" options in case "Spelljammer" is not the actual game.
• New Class/Prestige Edges: Samurai, Sohei, Kensei, Psion, Psychic Warrior, Wu Jen, Cerebremancer
• New Spelljamming/Setting Edges: Spelljammer/Realms-specific setting related Edges
• Ship subsystems: Optional systems/tables for ship-combat, modification.
• Deity Specific Domains and Vows
• Codes of Honor: Lists of various Codes for PC's to follow
• Gear: Spelljammer and cultural specific gear.
• Spelljammer/Other setting Monster conversion

This is my starting list... I'm fairly confident there will be more I'll need to do as I go.

My man, so much stuff is similar to mine. Especially the ship combat. I found a ship-combat system I like, but that wil take some work to convert.

Heh that's because you have good taste, sir.

Savage Pathfinder has opened the door for a LOT of possibilities. I don't mean just for our tables. But now there is a template for us to create publishable content where while we can't expressly use Savage Pathfinder, that doesn't mean we can't build fantasy settings in parallel to "classic D&D" along those lines.

I've been waiting for this to happen. I'm hoping SW will have a nice little renaissance because of SWPathfinder (and SWRifts). The system is solid and scalable. It's not perfect, but it handles a LOT of shit that d20 struggles with, and does it with ease.

A basic houserule Im gonna introduce is that armor limitations only apply to the classes abilities, not every ability ever.

So by becoming a rogue from a baker, now you don't suddeny suck at baking while wearing armor when for 20 years you never had that issue before.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 03, 2021, 11:00:49 AM
A basic houserule Im gonna introduce is that armor limitations only apply to the classes abilities, not every ability ever.

So by becoming a rogue from a baker, now you don't suddeny suck at baking while wearing armor when for 20 years you never had that issue before.

  I have a feeling moving around in a hot kitchen with what would be cramped conditions (I think mcmansion kitchens are a more recent US invention) doing what amounts to several finer movements might actually be a case for armor having a detrimental effect to a skill.

Quote from: oggsmash on July 03, 2021, 11:25:36 AMI have a feeling moving around in a hot kitchen with what would be cramped conditions (I think mcmansion kitchens are a more recent US invention) doing what amounts to several finer movements might actually be a case for armor having a detrimental effect to a skill.

True, but that only kicks in after becoming a Rogue is my issue (with how edges are designed).
SW lacks a proficiency system, and instead has skill rankings or minimal STR requirements. I find the armor penalty more a balancing factor for some stuff, but id rather it be a balancing factor for said specific abilities, not everything else sort of 'retroactively'.

Well since that rule exists specifically for SW Pathfinder, it's there to balance the heft of the Class Edge itself while paying homage to the D&D conceits of Classes.

So there is no reason you couldn't rebalance it *without* that Armor Limitation ruling, which I'm not a fan of, but I understand why it's there: To give D&D/Pathfinder players the "sense" of playing D&D/Pathfinder within the Savage Worlds ruleset. "Classes" imo should be looked at as an entirely new sub-system that has plenty of room to be tweaked. I'm still weighing on that rule myself but I'll cross that bridge where I create new Class Edges. You bring up an interesting point with your house-rule.

The moment I saw Savage Rifts Iconic Frameworks, I knew this was the direction they were going to go. +4 Race Bonus totals, Beefy Class Edges = LOTS of design maneuvering room. I look at Savage Rifts as a fairly soft and very HIGH ceiling. Savage Pathfinder is a nice floor.

Quote from: tenbones on July 03, 2021, 03:19:28 PM
Well since that rule exists specifically for SW Pathfinder, it's there to balance the heft of the Class Edge itself while paying homage to the D&D conceits of Classes.

Yeah its the one of the few 'homages' I actually dislike. For instance the magic item system is a major improvement. The problem wasn't the +1 magic sword. The problem was the +2-5 magic sword that made magic items a treadmill, and made costs multiply exponentially.

If you wanted to challenge players at higher levels, you needed a inherent advancement system, or have enemies wearing bajillions in bling, which also had to be non-sellable or something.

Also the wand of CLW is thankfully not exploitable anymore, as wands don't come with a cost reduction effect.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 03, 2021, 04:24:52 PM
have enemies wearing bajillions in bling, which also had to be non-sellable or something.

This reminds me of a talk with my group on how default D&D economics doesn't make any sense; at least what the writers in various modules expect.
"How are these things expensive if every high level enemy have them?"
"Why aren't gold inflated at this level?"
"Can we even sell these? Does the merchant have this much gold, physically? Can he even sell it for a profit and to whom?"

I remember when D20 was splintering into "flavors" where some people wanted True20 and some D20 Modern and some where looking for alternatives outside of the OGL so, Chaosium/BasicRP got a 2nd look, Savage Worlds became a possibility, Silhouette tried to GURPSify itself. White Wolf was pushing their Tri Stat, R. Talsorian tried to change Inteloc into Fuzion, and then in the midst of all that freaking Evil Hat just appears and basically says " hey. I've got an idea...let's charge money for a new version of F.U.D.G.E " and it works?

Quote from: 234ne on July 03, 2021, 08:40:19 PM

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on July 03, 2021, 04:24:52 PM
have enemies wearing bajillions in bling, which also had to be non-sellable or something.

This reminds me of a talk with my group on how default D&D economics doesn't make any sense; at least what the writers in various modules expect.
"How are these things expensive if every high level enemy have them?"
"Why aren't gold inflated at this level?"
"Can we even sell these? Does the merchant have this much gold, physically? Can he even sell it for a profit and to whom?"

   No they do not.  Our DM uses the system as is when we play it and I try to ignore it.  When I am running a game, even fantasy (for which I use GURPS or Savage Worlds) I use their general Dollar prices and run as if 1 copper = 1 dollar, and then have a few silver coins that run from 4$ to 10$.  A gold coin is worth 100-200$.   This means a thrusting broad sword is worth 3-6 gold coins and a spear is closer to a few silver coins.  D&D prices for weapons are often based on the damage the weapon does and not the actual labor it takes to produce the weapon.   Many places also trade in bits of gold and silver (often hacked off of bars or torcs) roughly equal to coins and merchants rarely have massive amounts of gold, as gold is simply not traded for most transactions. 

Quote from: palaeomerus on July 14, 2021, 12:03:48 AM
I remember when D20 was splintering into "flavors" where some people wanted True20 and some D20 Modern and some where looking for alternatives outside of the OGL so, Chaosium/BasicRP got a 2nd look, Savage Worlds became a possibility, Silhouette tried to GURPSify itself. White Wolf was pushing their Tri Stat, R. Talsorian tried to change Inteloc into Fuzion, and then in the midst of all that freaking Evil Hat just appears and basically says " hey. I've got an idea...let's charge money for a new version of F.U.D.G.E " and it works?

And now... because of how Savage Worlds is designed you can now play: Cyberpunk, D&D, Rifts, Cthulhu, Conan, Wildwest, Space Opera, and Superheroes - all under one system that scales up and down to the granularity you desire with relative ease.

Their settings are mechanically all interchangeable and scalable. This is the exact inversion of the d20 splintering effect. Savage Worlds handles them all with fidelity, GM not withstanding.

There are definitely things that Savage Worlds could use form of development on that it doesn't do overtly - hexcrawling. But those tools are easily ported over from other games with little effort. Nothing a few tables and some dice can't fix.

Found this neat little blogpost for converting other systems to Savage Worlds.

https://rodneyorpheus.medium.com/converting-other-rpgs-to-savage-worlds-9ab60228f71d

Covers general d20
D&D 5e
Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 1e/2e
d100 BRP systems -  Call of Cthulhu, Runequest, Stormbringer, FASA Star Trek, OpenQuest, Magic World etc.
OpenD6 - Star Wars etc.

It's pretty good!