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SJWs say Queer D&D Book is "Wrong Kind" of Queer

Started by RPGPundit, March 19, 2021, 01:07:31 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

RandyB

Quote from: Brad on March 26, 2021, 06:55:28 PM
Quote from: RandyB on March 26, 2021, 05:33:46 PM
They believe that fiction can become real, because they want their favorite fiction to become real. Therefore, they must suppress fiction that does not 100% agree with their favorite fiction, lest some other fiction become real instead of their favorite.

Is this some fucked up Neverending Story crap?

No.

It's postmodernism taken to its fullest conclusion, with "favorite fiction" as the template for their subjective worldview. If they can force everyone to act according to their worldview, then it is effectively real.

Then you have the "spiritual" ones, for whom it is an occult ritual writ large; to create the reality of their preference, again with the fiction as the template.

Good luck distinguishing one type from the other.

Stephen Tannhauser

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 26, 2021, 07:07:12 PMBigotry arises from people being actively taught to hate others.

With the caveat that people can be "taught" by their own experiences, although as you say, even turning bad experiences into a philosophical principle usually requires indoctrination of some variety first.

QuoteNo, it's just typical fandom toxicity. The tumblr crowd is really bad about it. There are many horror stories about stuff like giving cookies containing needles to crew members who worked on Steven Universe, for example.

Good grief! Why did people do that? I thought Steven Universe was as close to a 100% beloved franchise as you could find on the SJ side of fandom.
Better to keep silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

STR 8 DEX 10 CON 10 INT 11 WIS 6 CHA 3

BoxCrayonTales

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on March 27, 2021, 01:02:41 AM
QuoteNo, it's just typical fandom toxicity. The tumblr crowd is really bad about it. There are many horror stories about stuff like giving cookies containing needles to crew members who worked on Steven Universe, for example.

Good grief! Why did people do that? I thought Steven Universe was as close to a 100% beloved franchise as you could find on the SJ side of fandom.
There is no beloved franchise in SJ fandom. They're all horribly toxic.

Watch Clownfish TV on youtube for various callouts of this awful behavior.

VisionStorm

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on March 27, 2021, 01:02:41 AM
QuoteNo, it's just typical fandom toxicity. The tumblr crowd is really bad about it. There are many horror stories about stuff like giving cookies containing needles to crew members who worked on Steven Universe, for example.

Good grief! Why did people do that? I thought Steven Universe was as close to a 100% beloved franchise as you could find on the SJ side of fandom.

It's the product of an entire generation reared by helicopter parents who gave them participating trophies and tried to bubblewrap the entire world for them. A generation of entitled overgrown children who never grew up and never learned to deal with the discomfort of not always having their way.

Then were fed some grandiose conspiracy theory that paints half the world as villains and the other half as victims, along with the justification for treating presumed "oppressors" as enemy combatants in some grand revolution, and anyone who doesn't side with them (or fails one of their purity tests) as one of these oppressors, or at least complicit with them. So any perceived slight (real or imagined) is viewed as violence and worthy of being met with actual violence in return.

One of the writers probably messed up someone's pronouns or something, or wrote an episode that somehow failed some obscure SJW purity standard at some point, so obviously the proportionate reaction was to feed them needles. This is why no hobby or fandom is safe from them—not even the ones they presumably like. Even RPG writers that openly side with them and join their cancel cult eventually get destroyed when they unwittingly commit a faux pas. They're violent pampered children throwing a tantrum. Reason and measured responses are beyond them.

yabaziou

Those people are trying to emotionally blackmail WotC to get jobs they do not deserve. If the leadership at WotC is too weak to fall in this most idiotic trap, so be it. The OGL ensures we can play D&D forever with the authorization of the most pathetic People's commissars : those too talentless to make their own games.
My Tumblr blog : http://yabaziou.tumblr.com/

Currently reading : 13th Age, Cypher System, Polaris

Currently planning : Project Scourge : the battle for the Soul of Mankind using 13th Age

Currently playing : The Chronicles of the Devouring Lands using D&D 5.

Omega

#50
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PMI think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

Problem is. This is exactly how some gays treat being gay. As if it were a disease they want to spread to others to create more gays. And this has been a thing for a long time and why some folk have a very strong dislike of them because these types give everyone else a bad image. The push for this in recent years to practically force it on people is going to just make the negative view all the worse.

But this image is not new. Co-opting vampires as a "gay metaphor" is also just one in a long string of these claims, also not new.
Some storygamers and especially Pundits swine use similar tactics.

This Guy

Yeah I'm down with the book of camp gay stereotypes my players can kill, where's their store page?
I don\'t want to play with you.

This Guy

So what's everybody's favorite Anne Rice book.

I'm basic and like Interview best because it's a lot of talking about how being a vampire is awful. Lestat onwards just does a lot of retcons for the more active character, and like, I fuckin get that Rice, but it's got no poignancy.

Carmilla is pretty good too and it's like the better novel from the 19th century. Just two gals being pals!
I don\'t want to play with you.

Opaopajr

Didn't read that much Anne Rice, so Taltos and several other sagas I cannot comment. But of her work I will say "Cry to Heaven" about a castrati vendetta story, a solid tragedy placed in Venice.

Of vampires... hard to beat Bram Stoker's "Dracula," even if it is quite long in the tooth (a-ha! try the veal, folks!) and lengthy to modern tastes. I recommend the audiobook for most people, though the Copolla movie version is exquisite and closest in current fidelity. LeFanu's "Carmilla" does deserve a nod, too.

Of the White Wolf novellas... I tried reading the Bloodlines series. I really soured after the Gangrel one and read up to Ventrue, if I remember correctly. I heard Nosferatu was the barn burner ending. Of what I read I would probably say Assamite or Setite were the more mature reads, with Ventrue and Toreador close runner ups. But that's with a heavy caveat that I knowingly rate gameline genre fiction exceedingly low bar. Apparently there's some old and new comics about for White Wolf vampires, who knows they might be better?, but I doubt it.

Of this drama... it's really a melodrama of people who preach virtues but only hold public concensus/popularity as the highest 'virtue'. Vanagloria, Superbia, the Sin of Pride. Basically a fight with drama queens and mean girls doing courtier battles. Best to let them eat themselves in their own "Dangerous Liaisons."
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

BoxCrayonTales

Quote from: Omega on April 12, 2021, 12:49:57 AM
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on March 22, 2021, 12:36:00 PMI think the equation of monsters with queers is disturbing, actually. Homophobic, even.

Vampires are basically a mix of cannibalism, demonic possession, and STDs. Equating that with being queer doesn't reflect well on queerness or the people making the comparison. Especially the bit about vampires being able to infect others and turn them into more vampires, which is not how being queer works (despite what some anti-queer groups may claim).

Vampires can be queer, sure, but their vampirism and queerness should not be causally linked.

Problem is. This is exactly how some gays treat being gay. As if it were a disease they want to spread to others to create more gays. And this has been a thing for a long time and why some folk have a very strong dislike of them because these types give everyone else a bad image. The push for this in recent years to practically force it on people is going to just make the negative view all the worse.

But this image is not new. Co-opting vampires as a "gay metaphor" is also just one in a long string of these claims, also not new.
Some storygamers and especially Pundits swine use similar tactics.
Are you sure you're still talking about gays and not people advocating the use of puberty blockers and transgender surgery on children who don't conform to 1950s gender stereotypes?

Quote from: This Guy on April 12, 2021, 01:16:12 AM
So what's everybody's favorite Anne Rice book.

I'm basic and like Interview best because it's a lot of talking about how being a vampire is awful. Lestat onwards just does a lot of retcons for the more active character, and like, I fuckin get that Rice, but it's got no poignancy.

Carmilla is pretty good too and it's like the better novel from the 19th century. Just two gals being pals!
You probably won't like the other retcons Rice made involving Atlantis and ancient aliens.

Quote from: Opaopajr on April 12, 2021, 11:14:31 AM
Didn't read that much Anne Rice, so Taltos and several other sagas I cannot comment. But of her work I will say "Cry to Heaven" about a castrati vendetta story, a solid tragedy placed in Venice.

Of vampires... hard to beat Bram Stoker's "Dracula," even if it is quite long in the tooth (a-ha! try the veal, folks!) and lengthy to modern tastes. I recommend the audiobook for most people, though the Copolla movie version is exquisite and closest in current fidelity. LeFanu's "Carmilla" does deserve a nod, too.

Of the White Wolf novellas... I tried reading the Bloodlines series. I really soured after the Gangrel one and read up to Ventrue, if I remember correctly. I heard Nosferatu was the barn burner ending. Of what I read I would probably say Assamite or Setite were the more mature reads, with Ventrue and Toreador close runner ups. But that's with a heavy caveat that I knowingly rate gameline genre fiction exceedingly low bar. Apparently there's some old and new comics about for White Wolf vampires, who knows they might be better?, but I doubt it.

Of this drama... it's really a melodrama of people who preach virtues but only hold public concensus/popularity as the highest 'virtue'. Vanagloria, Superbia, the Sin of Pride. Basically a fight with drama queens and mean girls doing courtier battles. Best to let them eat themselves in their own "Dangerous Liaisons."
I recommend the vampire novels by French author Paul Feval. They were translated to English by indie publisher Black Coat Press. They translate a lot of French pulps.

In fact, there are a number of vampire stories that predate Dracula. I recommend any of those if you can find them.

If you like the idea of wildly different strains of vampirism in the same setting a la Captain Kronos, then I recommend the American Vampire comic by Scott Snyder and Rafael Albuquerque.

This Guy

Cool cool I'll check out that castrati story, thx for the recommend. If you wanna try something a little more obscure from the 20th century check out Some of Your Blood by Theodore Sturgeon (yes it's the Sturgeon's Law guy). Hard to find in hardcopy so grab Kindle or audiobook, but me I say you want to grab Kindle because it's real good for a close read and picking out the omission of detail.

As for this book it's just the LGBT community having different opinions instead of a hive mind coz you got people who want openly gay villains because fuck representation, why should every fictional gay character have to be One Of The Good Ones, that's not real. And then you got your radfems and your tenderqueers who say fuck Messy Gay Characters, people are still mean to us in real life so we need more of the Good Ones and Positive Stories, and anyway depiction is endorsement.

A difference of opinion confuses the chud, and must make a video without the context explaining why.
I don\'t want to play with you.

This Guy

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 12, 2021, 11:28:14 AM
Quote from: This Guy on April 12, 2021, 01:16:12 AM
So what's everybody's favorite Anne Rice book.

I'm basic and like Interview best because it's a lot of talking about how being a vampire is awful. Lestat onwards just does a lot of retcons for the more active character, and like, I fuckin get that Rice, but it's got no poignancy.

Carmilla is pretty good too and it's like the better novel from the 19th century. Just two gals being pals!
You probably won't like the other retcons Rice made involving Atlantis and ancient aliens.

God dammit Rice. Series stops when the boy leaves the apartment to find Lestat, this is canon.

QuoteI recommend the vampire novels by French author Paul Feval. They were translated to English by indie publisher Black Coat Press. They translate a lot of French pulps.

In fact, there are a number of vampire stories that predate Dracula. I recommend any of those if you can find them.

If you like the idea of wildly different strains of vampirism in the same setting a la Captain Kronos, then I recommend the American Vampire comic by Scott Snyder and Rafael Albuquerque.

Hell yeah, fucking jackpot.
I don\'t want to play with you.

Opaopajr

#57
Quote from: This Guy on April 12, 2021, 11:28:50 AM

As for this book it's just the LGBT community having different opinions instead of a hive mind coz you got people who want openly gay villains because fuck representation, why should every fictional gay character have to be One Of The Good Ones, that's not real. And then you got your radfems and your tenderqueers who say fuck Messy Gay Characters, people are still mean to us in real life so we need more of the Good Ones and Positive Stories, and anyway depiction is endorsement.

A difference of opinion confuses the chud, and must make a video without the context explaining why.

I get what you are saying, but you also have to consider the vast majority of the LGBT+ community also are not activists screeching at each other.

The artists among them just create compared to appealing to 'design by committee' polemicists. The artists outside that demographic used to create with LGBT+ in mind, but there has been a creative freezing due to hesitancy to attract the activist hornet nest upon them, which leads to other LGBT+ (the well-adjusted?) being frustrated by the patronizing polemics as "representation." This is predominantly a tempest in an activist teapot, who is increasingly ticking everyone off who just fucking want good tea instead of steam already.  ;)

Also social media is a lead-lined teapot that leads to a toxic brew every time.  8) Starts sweet, ends in violence and tears.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

This Guy

Quote from: Opaopajr on April 12, 2021, 11:49:33 AM
I get what you are saying, but you also have to consider the vast majority of the LGBT+ community also are not activists screeching at each other.

The artists among them just create compared to appealing to 'design by committee' polemicists. The artists outside that demographic used to create with LGBT+ in mind, but there has been a creative freezing due to hesitancy to attract the activist hornet nest upon them, which leads to other LGBT+ (the well-adjusted?) being frustrated by the patronizing polemics as "representation." This is predominantly a tempest in an activist teapot, who is increasingly ticking everyone off who just fucking want good tea instead of steam already.  ;)

Also social media is a lead-lined teapot that leads to a toxic brew every time.  8) Starts sweet, ends in violence and tears.

I got no specific claims re: heightened social media use in a marginalized demo but might be higher in this regard. Got no claims on levels of adjustment either.

And the artists among them did create, book's written by a queer author. You wanna dig deep into the bones of this (and why would you unless you have real stake in it or a grift to run on warmed-over hot-take polemic videos for that sweet influence) this's an intersectionality fight among the LGBT community.
I don\'t want to play with you.

Omega

As said here and elsewhere. The problem is oft when you get a faction within a group that treats it as if it were a disease they need to spread to others. Preferably the younger the better now it seems. And of course there is going to be resistance. These extremist factions give the groups they are latched onto an increasingly negative image.

Look at how storygamers, or more to the point, Pundits swine and the worst of the Foregeites went at RPGs trying to co-opt RPGs to infest as many as they could. And resistance built up and still persists because they sure as hell have not given up.