Quote from: StanTheMan;557580That's a way to look at it, for sure. Or at least, many times, I got this feeling that the mechanics in the systems that I was using was getting in the way of the stuff I DID like; so you're right, in that sense. I didn't need the other sets of mechanics to get what I liked out of the game.

That the "Narrativist" games get in the way of stuff you do like is, I think, a side-effect of many Forge-inspired games being designed to cater only to a single style of play at the expense of all others.  

Quote from: StanTheMan;557580Also let's quiet guy not engage in it if he doesn't want to, which can't be bad. Why force a guy to play a certain way?

That's one of the things that really turned me off of the Burning Empires book.  There is an example of play where a player creates a fairly simple character concept and the GM tells them that it's not good enough in (what seemed to me, anyway) a fairly condescending way.  Not all players are the same and different people put different things into the game and get different things out of it.  And that's a big part of why narrowly focused games are a problem.

This is the usual problem with talking about games, in that people try and use badly defined meaningless GNS terms that no-one every fucking agrees on what they mean rather than talk about the actual game system.

If you don't like Bennies*, just say 'I don't like bennies' and it will save a lot of confusion.


*or any other rules thing.

Quote from: jadrax;557595This is the usual problem with talking about games, in that people try and use badly defined meaningless GNS terms that no-one every fucking agrees on what they mean rather than talk about the actual game system.

If you don't like Bennies*, just say 'I don't like bennies' and it will save a lot of confusion.


*or any other rules thing.

True. That's why I said narrative "elements" not narrative game. For example I love things like stunts/fate points/action points et al. But that really isn't what I consider what makes a narrative game. Just some elements that give players a chance to redeem bad dice rolls or take a risk because it's cool.

Quote from: Phantom Black;557585You know jack about Savage Worlds if you call it a narrativist game.

Then it's a good thing that nobody in this thread, to my knowledge, is calling it a "Narrativist" game.

Quote from: Phantom Black;557585I just hope your SW players point out each and every fucking mistake and error you make while running the game so you would take your Forgey hands off of the game. IT IS NOT YOUR STORYBITCH, DUDE!

From the Savage Worlds Deluxe Explorer's Edition:

QuoteScripted.Adventures

Scripted adventures are more like interactive stories. The players can make choices along the way, but the overall plot advances more or less intact regardless of what they do. Epic tales must sometimes follow this path—it's hard to tell a story if you don't know what chapters are to come.

When running a scripted adventure, try not to make your scenarios feel scripted. The group should never feel like they're just observers, going along for the ride no matter what they do. Instead, use the situation, overwhelming opponents, or "down times" to give the group the illusion they control the story more than they really do. In Evernight, for example, there's a point where the heroes can do whatever they want for a time. Eventually, however, they are captured by the villains of the tale, and begin the next episode of the story.

Looks like the Savage Worlds authors acknowledge that the game can, in fact, be the GM's "storybitch", if that's what the GM wants.

For a movie comparison...

Savage Worlds - Total Recall, Commando
Not Savage Worlds - Predator

SW - Silverado, Young Guns
Not SW - Unforgiven, Appaloosa, Open Range

SW - Stripes
Not SW - Full Metal Jacket

SW - Scorpion King, Conan the Destroyer
Not SW - Conan the Barbarian

SW - Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
Not SW - The Crow

SW - Indiana Jones Movies, The Mummy Movies
Not SW - The Ninth Gate, The Exorcist

SW - Transformers, Battleship, Independence Day
Not SW - Minority Report, Blade Runner, Alien

Quote from: CRKrueger;557616For a movie comparison...

Savage Worlds - Total Recall, Commando
Not Savage Worlds - Predator

SW - Silverado, Young Guns
Not SW - Unforgiven, Appaloosa, Open Range

SW - Stripes
Not SW - Full Metal Jacket

SW - Scorpion King, Conan the Destroyer
Not SW - Conan the Barbarian

SW - Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
Not SW - The Crow

SW - Indiana Jones Movies, The Mummy Movies
Not SW - The Ninth Gate, The Exorcist

SW - Transformers, Battleship, Independence Day
Not SW - Minority Report, Blade Runner, Alien

That's a pretty good way of putting it too.

Quote from: StanTheMan;557442But then I'd have to BUY it, see? And that ain't happening even a little soon, with vacation coming up. Gotta save the pennies so I can drink it all away in Italy!

I'm not well versed in the Runequest family of games, but my understanding is that it's a fantasy version of BRP  and there are a few free or low cost versions of it such as Legend and Openquest.

I am sure there people on this forum who can correct me or provide more details. But based on your initial requirement of "like Gurps fantasy but less complex" this might be a match.

Quote from: StanTheMan;557442But then I'd have to BUY it, see? And that ain't happening even a little soon, with vacation coming up. Gotta save the pennies so I can drink it all away in Italy!

Now I'm a big fan of BRP, and you can get a lot of BRP fantasy goodness for free, or for very little money.

The Legend RPG (formerly Mongoose Runequest II) is going for a dollar over at DriveThruRPG. Here. If you're considering BRP it's worth a look at least.

OpenQuest, a "Runequest lite" of sorts, has a text-only version available for free download at the d101 Games web site: OpenQuest Developer's Kit.

The Renaissance Engine is an OpenQuest hack which powers the new edition of the excellent Clockwork & Chivalry RPG. Free download over at DTRPG and also worth checking out.

Enjoy Italy and have a spritz on me when you're in Venice.

Quote from: The Butcher;557851Now I'm a big fan of BRP, and you can get a lot of BRP fantasy goodness for free, or for very little money.

The Legend RPG (formerly Mongoose Runequest II) is going for a dollar over at DriveThruRPG. Here. If you're considering BRP it's worth a look at least.

OpenQuest, a "Runequest lite" of sorts, has a text-only version available for free download at the d101 Games web site: OpenQuest Developer's Kit.

The Renaissance Engine is an OpenQuest hack which powers the new edition of the excellent Clockwork & Chivalry RPG. Free download over at DTRPG and also worth checking out.

Enjoy Italy and have a spritz on me when you're in Venice.

Thanks for that! Might have to take a look at BRP then (once money is scrounged).

Funnily enough, we'll be at Bibione, which is only an hour from Venice as a matter of fact. We did that two years ago, and we're planning it again (drive from Bibione, park at Tronchotto, waterbus to Venice).

Or...how did you know I'd be near it...? :eek:

Quote from: StanTheMan;557888Thanks for that! Might have to take a look at BRP then (once money is scrounged).

Funnily enough, we'll be at Bibione, which is only an hour from Venice as a matter of fact. We did that two years ago, and we're planning it again (drive from Bibione, park at Tronchotto, waterbus to Venice).

Or...how did you know I'd be near it...? :eek:

Because Venice is awesome, and if you hadn't been there, I'd urge you to go. I know, it's crowded and expensive and all that, but it's a unique experience. I spent two days at Venice upon arriving in Italy and loved it. Sitting in a café by the Canal Grande with Mrs. The Butcher, sipping a spritz (I prefer mine with Campari, but I'm a horrible, godless tourist) and enjoying the warm October sunset... ah, the memories...

Back on track. Do check out these BRP offerings and let me know what you think. I played a hell of a lot of GURPS back in the day (love the grittiness, but dislike the unwieldly character generation), and I've ran a hell of a lot of SW in the last couple of years (love the agility of the rules system, dislike the low lethality).

Nowadays you might say BRP is my "compromise" system? I'm not too fond of "generic systems" but I think the genius of BRP is that it's very, very easy to mod into what you want. Simplify combat, factor in Sanity rules, and suddenly you have Call of Cthulhu, possibly the best loved and most played horror RPG in the world. Add complex combat options such as hit locations, a more baroque magic system with interesting metaphysics, and voilà! Runequest, the classic fantasy game that came second only to D&D during the hobby's heyday. A different set of combat options and a distinct magic system gave us Stormbringer, the original heavy metal fantasy RPG. And so on, and so forth.