SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

Racism, Sexism, Homophobia and the like in your games...

Started by Bagpuss, October 05, 2006, 04:01:32 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Bagpuss

How do you feel about the issues above appearing in your RPGs?

I've seen post on other boards before about how some players don't like such issues in their fantasy games because they see enough in real life and they just want escapism. It's down played or none existant in many fantasy games. While they may have some simularities with medieval Europe, women are on a equal footing with men, unlike in historical period.

They seem to be more common themes in Modern, Near-Future and Sci-Fi games. For example the meta-human hate common in Shadowrun is just racism in another form.

Do these issues appear much in your games?
 

beejazz

Racism: A question of scale. "Black" and "White" don't matter nearly as much if there's also "Green, scaly, and fire-breathing."

Sexism: I see this coinciding with a lot of boring periods in history anyway, at least in the sense that most people mean it (that women are hindered). When there's killing to be done, those that are good at it do it and those that don't like it shut up out of fear of those that are good at it. That said, the sexes are still never quite going to see eye to eye, regardless of egalitarianism or what have you.

Homophobia: Dude, RPG characters don't have sex lives. That's why they find it necessary to vent their frustrations on poverty-stricken goblinoids in random dungeon-crawls. If my answer to sexism is the French Revolution, my answer to homophobia is ancient Greece. Homophobia is a social construct, not a necessary reality. Also, like with race, you've got bigger fish to fry. You're worried about getting your brains eaten by mind flayers... what's so scary about getting hit on by a dude?

Zachary The First

Racism:  Well, in the idea of completely different races, such as Humans and Orcs, I think the issue, however handled, is present in most standard fantasy games of today--it's just a matter of how it's handled.  The dwarf in your party grumbling about the elven wizard being a tree-hugging wussy, or the continued animosity/genocide between a clan of mountain dwarves and orcs is a form of looking at race relations I suppose, though I doubt very much any of us assign any meaningful study to it.  In my games, and very much in my homebrew setting, people are generally disposed towards seeing people who are different from them in a certain light.  I don't make any social commentary, but I also don't try to make it where prejudice doesn't exist in some form.
 
Sexism:  I think this is definitely an area in which most gamers (myself included) are more lax.  Females in most pseudo-medieval settings aren't limited to Peasant Wife, Lady of the Estate, Salt Wife, or Dock Whore, and that's fine with me.  I suppose if I were to play something attempting to accurately portray medieval society (which would be a never-ending quagmire and flame war to end all others), things might be a little different, but I can't see myself telling a new female player at my table her character will be starting off as a Level 2 Housefrau, or that her belief system revolves around "making supper and heirs--not neccessarily in that order".
 
Homophobia:  Hoo boy.  This came up in a sidebar from a regular game a while back, with one player claiming that in ancient Rome homosexuality was a-ok.  In actuality, Rome (and you can back me up or correct me here, Pundit) had a complex system where the amount of acceptability or shame of the practice was derived from one's relative, er..."position" in said relationship. Then we started talking about Sulla and Metrobius...
 
Anyhow, point being, this shit gets complicated, fast.  At my table, some characters are gay, some care, some don't.  I don't portray it as right or wrong, but rather just the way some folks are.  If characters are prejudiced against them, then that's part of their character.  Players, on the other hand, need to behave themselves--I've never had an issue with homophobia at my table, and I don't intend to start.  Leave the OOC politics and religion (which it seems to tie into a lot these days) away from the table.
RPG Blog 2

Currently Prepping: Castles & Crusades
Currently Reading/Brainstorming: Mythras
Currently Revisiting: Napoleonic/Age of Sail in Space

Lawbag

I get enough of this type of shit in newspapers and in real life, so Im not interested in incorporating into my games.
"See you on the Other Side"
 
Playing: Nothing
Running: Nothing
Planning: pathfinder amongst other things
 
Playing every Sunday in Bexleyheath, Kent, UK 6pm til late...

Mr. Analytical

I think that they add flavour to a campaign world if you know how to deploy them intelligently.

For example, there's nothing more dull than fantasy that pointlessly regurgitates the social conservatism and racial attitudes of the pre-war generations as in the LotR and the Narnia books.

Similarly, if the writer of the source material is clearly more racist than he should be then there's no point keeping it in the game.  I'm thinking of Lovecraft here whose letters are beyond the pale; he describes being in New York standing in line next to "Hideous negroes who look like gigantic chimpanzees" and "rat-faced jews" and occasionally he goes off on a proper Lovecraftian rant about the "semitico-negro-mongoloids" who ooze from door to door with the sweet and yet rancid stench of decay and foreign food following them in their wake.  Mercifully his books display the kind of casual racism of Lovecraft's class and period rather than the full-blooded neurosis and hatred he clearly felt.  I see no need to be "true" to the source material in cases such as Lovecraft or Robert E. Howard who is another one for talking about "ape-like negroes".

However, I'm slowly gearing up towards maybe running a game set in the Early Modern period of european history and it'd be remiss of me to not make the game about the struggles between Protestants and Catholics with all the ensueing hatreds that come with it.

Bagpuss

I tend to get a lot of my inspiration (particulary for modern and future games) from newspapers and T.V. News.
 

Hastur T. Fannon

I've just written about 5000 words about sexual attitudes in one particular game setting so I guess I should have an opinion about them.  Like Mr Analytical says, they add flavour if they're deployed intelligently

beejaz: If your running a game about building a community then you bet the characters will have sex lives.  Incidentally, I may have written the first published RPG rules for the use of artifical contraception

In the games I run I tend not to mention it, typically because I like a light-hearted game, with a comedy subtext if not an actually comedy game.  I'd use it if I needed another way to indicate that the bad guy was a baddie
 

beejazz

Quote from: Hastur T. Fannonbeejaz: If your running a game about building a community then you bet the characters will have sex lives.  Incidentally, I may have written the first published RPG rules for the use of artifical contraception

Nah man. I was just kidding on that point. Maybe an [/sarcasm] would have been in order.

flyingmice

As a GM I all of these use these constantly. As a designer, I leave that to the GM. In my world, GM trumps designer every time.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT

jrients

Quote from: beejazzDude, RPG characters don't have sex lives. That's why they find it necessary to vent their frustrations on poverty-stricken goblinoids in random dungeon-crawls.

Hah!  Don't stop being awesome, beejazz!

This is how sexism, racism, and homophobia manifest in my games:

Sexism

"Is the drow cleric hot, DM?"
"I spend 1000gp on ales and whores."

(I'm not even sure that second one qualifies, since if a PC ever went looking for a male sex worker they'd find one at the same rates.)

Racism

"My ranger hates gnolls so much he gets +1 to hit."
"Whaddya mean we should parlay with them?  They're orcs, for thorssake!"

Homophobia

"Dude, I know buying just one room at the inn is cheaper and we're short on cash, but I ain't sharing a bed with you.  Don't ever suggest that again."

When I run modern games these issues come up even less, because the PCs are too busy being eaten by Cthulhu to have any conversation of the non-"Aieee!" variety.

Also:

QuoteIn my world, GM trumps designer every time.

That's golden.
Jeff Rients
My gameblog

Caesar Slaad

Racism comes up a fair bit in any more primitive setting. It's often the motivation for villains.

Sexism, less so. As much as it might be repugnant in the state it exists in modern life, the particular issue of victimization of women is a touchy one for me. I used to run some villains as sexual predators, but eventually became uncomfortable portraying such base villains that I've defaulted to less beleivable but ultimately less disquieting villains who don't have much interest in abusing a position of powers over captured/dominated females. I guess most of my male villains these days might as well be Ken doll anotomically. (I also guess this might be a reason I frequently use female villains... I find it easier to beleive a female villain who wouldn't become a sexual predator.)
The Secret Volcano Base: my intermittently updated RPG blog.

Running: Pathfinder Scarred Lands, Mutants & Masterminds, Masks, Starfinder, Bulldogs!
Playing: Sigh. Nothing.
Planning: Some Cyberpunk thing, system TBD.

beejazz

Quote from: Caesar SlaadRacism comes up a fair bit in any more primitive setting. It's often the motivation for villains.

Sexism, less so. As much as it might be repugnant in the state it exists in modern life, the particular issue of victimization of women is a touchy one for me. I used to run some villains as sexual predators, but eventually became uncomfortable portraying such base villains that I've defaulted to less beleivable but ultimately less disquieting villains who don't have much interest in abusing a position of powers over captured/dominated females. I guess most of my male villains these days might as well be Ken doll anotomically. (I also guess this might be a reason I frequently use female villains... I find it easier to beleive a female villain who wouldn't become a sexual predator.)
A villain doesn't have to be a predator to be an asshole.
Take Gendo Ikari for example. Did he sleep with and then betray Katsuragi (and her mother, for that matter)? Yes. But was it consenting adults? Yes.

Of course, all this falls apart where he violates Rei in ways that aren't even physically possible in an attempt to bring his dead wife back from the grave (or, rather, to go to her... it's all kind of vague considering how he fails and Rei pretty much steals his arm and all).

Sosthenes

Can't we all just get along and use Greek myth or Shakespeare for morality examples? ;)
 

JongWK

It depends on the genre, and on how it's handled by the group.
"I give the gift of endless imagination."
~~Gary Gygax (1938 - 2008)


flyingmice

Quote from: JongWKIt depends on the genre, and on how it's handled by the group.

Which is why I leave such things to the GM, other than the most general points. The GM knows his or her group better than any designer could, and knows best how to implement such things - or not.

-clash
clash bowley * Flying Mice Games - an Imprint of Better Mousetrap Games
Flying Mice home page: http://jalan.flyingmice.com/flyingmice.html
Currently Designing: StarCluster 4 - Wavefront Empire
Last Releases: SC4 - Dark Orbital, SC4 - Out of the Ruins,  SC4 - Sabre & World
Blog: I FLY BY NIGHT