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Player Empowerment Run Amok

Started by mcbobbo, July 16, 2013, 03:11:24 PM

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mcbobbo

I troll many forums at once, and I ran across this little gem: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2py3m?well-not-at-MY-table

The gist is...

1) They are playing Pathfinder Society, which has a set of what is rules legal as well as a number of other conceits required for participation.  Chief among these is that the GM is not permitted to modify the prescribed modules.  They're assumed to be the same playing experience no matter which table you pick.
2) A player devised a rules-legal way of trivializing combat with some kind of a pet.  I gather it is a bison.
3) A pair of GMs in this situation refused to run a game for this character.
4) Drama ensued...

The 'care level' is pretty low outside of those circles, for sure, but I for one was depressed to see GMing reduced to something you can force someone else to do.

Thought that might strike some of you guys the same way...

Sad, sad, sad.
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Sacrosanct

My advice to anyone who wants to complain about the DM not doing what you want via some rules lawyering?  DM a game yourself.  There.  Easy fix.



In my personal experience, either one of two things happen.

1. the player refuses, because then his personal character can't shine
2. the player is a shitty DM, and what should happen to all shitty DMs is that they will find themselves with no players that want to play in their world until they become less of a shitty DM.  

The first step in not being a shitty DM or player?  Recognizing that there are other players at the table who want to have fun too.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Rincewind1

Serves them right for trying to FORCE ON THE PLAYERS Mother May I/MTP. Fucking GMs, who do they think they are.
Furthermore, I consider that  This is Why We Don\'t Like You thread should be closed

Exploderwizard

Meh. The DMs chose to run games dictated by a 3rd party.

Shut up and run the robotic script you signed up for or quit being a Paizo server bitch and run your own game.
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

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mcbobbo

I almost wanted to rattle the vocabulary cage, but decided it wasn't the right forum for it.

For example,  can a GM without such discretion still be called a Game Master?

I think I could argue that.  They don't make the modules, don't preside over the characters in any way, can't change anything,  etc.  So much of the traditional GM role is removed that they really appear to be 'adjudicators'.
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Sacrosanct

A better term is referee, like the old tourney days.  Because that's essentially what they are playing.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

jadrax

I do not want to sound judgmental...

But that whole setup just looks no fucking fun at all.

Black Vulmea

Quote from: Exploderwizard;671338The DMs chose to run games dictated by a 3rd party.

Shut up and run the robotic script you signed up for or quit being a Paizo server bitch and run your own game.
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ACS

Sacrosanct

In terms of full disclosure, I have no idea what the Pathfinder Society is.  I don't know if they play games like in a tourney, where players and GMs could end up switching back and forth, or if it's local groups that hardly ever change players but are part of the club.

If they are more like the tourney players, I can understand why they would want conformity among DMs.  If they are groups that are just part of the club, that makes no sense to not allow the DM to run a game like he or she wants.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Imp

Well this doesn't sound like much fun except for the part where Super Bison Summoner (Rider? Oh, wait, it's an animal companion, isn't it. Super Bison Rider!) is the most feared warrior in all the lands. That part sounds hilarious.

taustin

Quote from: Sacrosanct;671326The first step in not being a shitty DM or player?  Recognizing that there are other players at the table who want to have fun too.

That should be tattooed on the inside of the eyelids of every gamemaster in glowing neon ink. And on the foreheads of every player, as well.

J Arcane

Quote from: Sacrosanct;671358In terms of full disclosure, I have no idea what the Pathfinder Society is.  I don't know if they play games like in a tourney, where players and GMs could end up switching back and forth, or if it's local groups that hardly ever change players but are part of the club.

If they are more like the tourney players, I can understand why they would want conformity among DMs.  If they are groups that are just part of the club, that makes no sense to not allow the DM to run a game like he or she wants.

My understanding is that it works more or less like the RPGA, which was fuckawful for all the same reasons this sounds fuckawful.
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Ladybird

Ordinarily, I'd be on the GM's side, although "discuss it with your players" is better than "fuck you and your bison, you fuck".

But.

The PFS GM's sign up to run RaW-legal (Not RaI!) games for all comers using predesigned scenarios they have to follow to the letter. There's no coercion here, the GM's signed up to this. Given that it's a heavy crunch system that's been optimised in pretty much every way possible for the last thirteen years, they should be expecting optimised characters. That shouldn't be a surprise for them. If they don't like it? They shouldn't be running PFS games, they should be running their own games and discussing banned concepts with their group. There's the fucking solution.

The players, in this instance, are just getting what they signed up for. The GM's, in this instance, are the ones being dicks.
one two FUCK YOU

Opaopajr

#13
PFS is like RPGA under a new name. Don't like being a server bitch, don't play tourney style RPGs. I find no purpose to it myself, but it is very popular among CCG types. It's all about builds, rules lawyering, and autowins. 3e was like crack cocaine to this demographic, PF is like crystal meth; they can't get enough of the chargen challenge to circumvent adventure paths.
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deadDMwalking

I don't see why they'd have to allow that player in the game, even if the build is legal.
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