All I know is the splat attack won't come much further in 2012...maybe in 2013. We'll see.

Also you can NEVER have enough Bestiaries. Trust me.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;466600...they are a small company in a small industry...

Which is it, they're small or they're number one?

Seanchai

Here's a link to how Lisa determined what was written above.

It's the sale of RPG books, it basically comes down to combining her print sales with her digital sales. She does not count D&D board games and such.

As for DDI, I know they recently switched the character builder to a web based app. I heard they've had a lot of compatibility problems and issues keeping it updated. Considering there are other options that offer the exact same functionality (powers & all), are more reliable and free, I can't imagine it's really doing all that well. My friends who pay do it for the Dragon and Dungeon articles.

Quote from: Seanchai;466623Which is it, they're small or they're number one?

Seanchai

They aren't mutually exlusive. They are small in comparison to wizards and they are focused on their rpgs. There seems to be less of a disconnect between tbe corporate side of paizo and the design side.

But just to clarify, i am not saying they are number one(though they may be), just that i think wizards is not where they want to be with d&d right now.

Quote from: Seanchai;466597Moreover, Paizo - especially with statement's like the CEO's - is no longer the underdog. What's going to happen when they can no longer reasonably play the "we're just a small business who loves its customers" martyr card?

They'll become public enemy number one.  :rolleyes:

Then their marketing strategy becomes:  "The customer can fuck off, because they can't do anything about it.  Ha! Ha! Ha!"

:banghead:

Quote from: Omnifray;466544What is it exactly that most gamers seem not to like about 4e?

It's not that I think 4e is a bad game.  It's that 4e is not the game I want to play when I want to play "D&D."  I don't dislike 4e, I just don't care.  (I feel the same way about Pathfinder, though.)

Quote from: Windjammer;466593...WotC has largely abandoned 4E Classic and put all its eggs in one basket - Essentials.

I'd go further - WotC in 2011 has largely abandoned both 4e Classic and 4e Essentials.  Heroes of Shadow is Half of the Player Books for 2011.  Half.  The DMs get a little bit more, but if it weren't for the board games and the books, there'd be little evidence that WotC even remembers it has the D&D licensce.  For Pathfinder to be outselling that kind of a release schedule is nice for Paizo, but mainly because it would be very embarassing if they couldn't.

Quote from: KrakaJak;466624She does not count D&D board games and such.

"Such" including the DDI, which is WotC's main source of revenue from D&D.

So Paizo, which releases a book or two a month, outsells WotC, which releases a book every few months, in most but not all, of the markets the CEO checks...which is how many and what kind of markets again? And this is exciting or interesting somehow?

When Paizo's CEO comes out and says, "We're making more money than WotC," let's talk...

Seanchai

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;466625They are small in comparison to wizards...

Are they? How many full time staffers do you think each has?

Obviously, both are tiny compared to corporate America. Hell, they're small compared to the last couple of organizations I worked for out in the real world and those weren't exactly large.

But let's look at just the RPG industry. If you want to decide a company is small or large based on the number of staffers, remember that WotC has been actively reducing the number of staff they have while Paizo has been adding them.

If you don't think staff is a good measure and want to look at sales...well, isn't the title of this thread "Pathfinder beats D&D in sales"?

Seanchai

I believe wizards has far more employees than paizo but that is just a guess. Wizards is also more than an rpg compoany. Paizo has the advantage that it can focus entirely on its rpgs. From where i am standing paizi looks like a more agile company. Again i could be completely wrong, however the evidence so far leads me to believe that wizards is losing its spot at the top of rpgs.

Writing about his time in Lake Geneva when WotC was buying TSR, Ryan Dancey said the following:

Quote from: Ryan DanceyWe heard some things that are very, very hard for a company to hear...We heard the people felt that >we< were irrelevant.

I think that's exactly what's happening to WotC, today.  A significant portion of the D&D market has decided that what WotC is currently doing and selling is irrelevant to its D&D gaming.  It's really as simple as that.

I will never understand blind loyalty to a corporation, where someone will defend a company to ridiculous lengths. If a product is pdf only, it's sales will be a tenth of a comparable print product, and that's only if it's a big company pushing it.

I honesty thought I'd not see the day, it's as stunning as some company selling baking soda outselling Arm and Hammer in any baking soda category.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;466641I believe wizards has far more employees than paizo but that is just a guess. Wizards is also more than an rpg compoany.

True. How many employees does it take to move a company from "small" to medium or large? How many full-time folks does Paizo have?

If you check out Paizo's information on the web, they don't make it sound as if they're a small company: "Paizo Publishing®, LLC is a leading publisher of fantasy roleplaying games, accessories, board games, and novels. Paizo's Pathfinder® line of rules, adventures, sourcebooks, and campaigns combines decades of game design experience into one evocative system compatible with the 3.5 rules. Paizo's GameMastery® accessories offer easy-to-use tools aimed at improving the tabletop RPG experience. Paizo's board game imprint unleashes fun, challenging games like Kill Doctor Lucky™ and Yetisburg™ that appeal to both families and casual gamers alike. Paizo's Planet Stories® line of science fiction and fantasy novels promise thrilling adventure of the like not seen since the legendary pulps. Paizo.com is the leading online hobby retail store, offering tens of thousands of products from a variety of publishers to customers all over the world. In the seven years since its founding, Paizo Publishing has received more than a dozen major industry awards and has grown to become one of the most influential companies in the hobby games industry."

Seanchai

Quote from: danbuter;466649If a product is pdf only, it's sales will be a tenth of a comparable print product, and that's only if it's a big company pushing it.

It will?

But when looking at the contrast between Paizo and WotC, it's important to understand that the DDI isn't PDFs of their products. It isn't some secondary source of information, a copy of something. It is the product.

Seanchai