Quote from: insubordinate polyhedral;1135991Here's the statement: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6sh9r?Agents-of-Edgewatch-Update

Gender Identities???
In fantasy roleplaying, if someone wants to play a character who's gender is the opposite of himself, then he simply writes "female" on his character sheet or writes "male" on her character sheet if she is female. I don't know what the big deal is.

So Paizo don't like cops? So who are they going to call if someone sells pirated copies of their copyrighted books, are they going to call the cops? How do they expect to make money if no one is enforcing their copyrights, if there aren't any cops to make the arrest because someone defunded them?

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1136079There where many factions vying for control of the Russian Empire. This destabilization happened even before WWI. But there were reasons why the communists won in the end and understanding propaganda was perhaps one of the most vital for them, including removing enemy institutions like the church. The fact you don't know or ignore this tells me we won't make any progress and I end the conversation.

I do know this and the communists won because of the one-two punch of effective propaganda AND the chaos of WWI finally removing any and all limits the various factions vying for control in Russia may have had.

Why should we support the church?

From my perspective, they are just as bad as the commies but from a different angle.

And why can't we use effective propaganda tactics to combat the Marxists? Why must we hold ourselves to the chains of morality when they clearly won't?

Taking the moral high ground only works when your opponent plays by the same rules. But they don't and neither should we.

Beat them at their own game, don't bind yourself needlessly.

We need to use edge culture and effective propaganda to fight back if we want to destroy the SJW Left. Sic Semper Tyrannis!

I know everyone here thinks EnWorld has gone down some leftist hole or something, but y'all should check out the thread on this topic over there. The majority of posts were "Damn, this is some stupid stuff right here".  There were some differing opinions, but the average response was "This seems over the top."

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1136086Why should we support the church?

I don't know who the 'we' are in this case. In the sense that the Czar was an oppressive bastard but tearing him down only made the situation worse.

QuoteSic Semper Tyrannis!

You yourself are tyrannical in nature, find yourself empathizing with tyrants and want extreme authoritarian control over others, and relish a style of government many times more tyrannical and authoritarian then what we have today or even what the SJWs want to implement. I find your calls to anti-authoritarianism to be extremely disingenuous. You literally call for amorality. Unless its subjectivism word games.

Quote from: DocJones;1136081For those who are triggered by playing local law enforcement subject to rules and regulations, Paizo instead provides the opportunity to instead to play a party of vigilantes to lynch the baddies.
One can only laugh at their mental illness.

And that's usually the unique challenge of law enforcement themed campaigns, where you're expected to work within the bounds of the law - whether that be the 21st century or a fantasy city - unlike murder hobo vigilantes who rarely have to worry about being accountable to anyone but themselves. PC law enforcement are far more likely to be unambiguously heroic, or at least far less corrupt than the average adventurer's watch/guard who're so useless they need the adventurers in the first place or are in-bed with the antagonists.

I will admit that I am one of the more vociferous Paizo supporters here at therpgsite.

And I will also admit that I was looking forward to playing the Agents of Edgewater adventure path.

That being said, this is a step too far.

Now I have been watching the slow and then fast devolution of the Paizo staffers since the Wuhan virus sent everyone into lockdown and this has now hit peak mental retardation.

You can not come out against your own RPG adventure where you are members of the police when you have already made a RPG adventure where you are pirates and slavers.  You just can not.

So that being said, it is not me it is you.  Time for us to have a break.  Maybe play some other games for a while, see what other game designers are doing.  And maybe if you can get your shit together, clean out some of that rot eating away at your core competency, stop giving money away to people that represent the worst of society then maybe we can sit down and roll some dice again.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1136079There where many factions vying for control of the Russian Empire. This destabilization happened even before WWI. But there were reasons why the communists won in the end and understanding propaganda was perhaps one of the most vital for them, including removing enemy institutions like the church. The fact you don't know or ignore this tells me we won't make any progress and I end the conversation.

The communists won in the end because they took control of the military.

Quote from: Mistwell;1136088I know everyone here thinks EnWorld has gone down some leftist hole or something, but y'all should check out the thread on this topic over there. The majority of posts were "Damn, this is some stupid stuff right here".  There were some differing opinions, but the average response was "This seems over the top."

And, predictably, the thread was locked down for not towing the party line.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1136105I don't know who the 'we' are in this case. In the sense that the Czar was an oppressive bastard but tearing him down only made the situation worse.


You yourself are tyrannical in nature, find yourself empathizing with tyrants and want extreme authoritarian control over others, and relish a style of government many times more tyrannical and authoritarian then what we have today or even what the SJWs want to implement. I find your calls to anti-authoritarianism to be extremely disingenuous. You literally call for amorality. Unless its subjectivism word games.

>amorality
>authoritarian

Pick one

Also, I don't call for amorality.

I call for immorality. Know the difference.

Removing the Tsar from power was a mistake, and it only accelerated the long march to a Malthusian apocalypse.

Either way, I'm done having this discussion and I am bowing out of the thread.

I don't want to piss off Pundit any more than I already probably have.

Quote from: Shasarak;1136110I will admit that I am one of the more vociferous Paizo supporters here at therpgsite.

And I will also admit that I was looking forward to playing the Agents of Edgewater adventure path.

That being said, this is a step too far.

Now I have been watching the slow and then fast devolution of the Paizo staffers since the Wuhan virus sent everyone into lockdown and this has now hit peak mental retardation.

You can not come out against your own RPG adventure where you are members of the police when you have already made a RPG adventure where you are pirates and slavers.  You just can not.

So that being said, it is not me it is you.  Time for us to have a break.  Maybe play some other games for a while, see what other game designers are doing.  And maybe if you can get your shit together, clean out some of that rot eating away at your core competency, stop giving money away to people that represent the worst of society then maybe we can sit down and roll some dice again.

As someone who also loved Pathfinder 1E, I completely agree with you on this one.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1136108And that's usually the unique challenge of law enforcement themed campaigns, where you're expected to work within the bounds of the law - whether that be the 21st century or a fantasy city - unlike murder hobo vigilantes who rarely have to worry about being accountable to anyone but themselves. PC law enforcement are far more likely to be unambiguously heroic, or at least far less corrupt than the average adventurer's watch/guard who're so useless they need the adventurers in the first place or are in-bed with the antagonists.

If I GMed this Paizo AP, I'd have the baddies scream "I can't breathe" every time the PCs confronted them just to see how they'd handle it.

Quote from: Shasarak;1136112The communists won in the end because they took control of the military.

The military was fractured and was not aligned only with 1 faction. That's why there where two civil wars.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1136114>amorality
>authoritarian
Pick one faggot

You can be amoral and authoritarian easily.

QuoteAlso, I don't call for amorality.
I call for immorality. Know the difference.

Thats.....Worse. Amorality implies you simply believe in no morals. Immorality is doing things you know are wrong. As I said unless we are playing subjectivist word games.
Belief in either would make your belief in the objectionability of tyrants disingenuous.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1136115As someone who also loved Pathfinder 1E, I completely agree with you on this one.

Agreed. I liked Golarion as this anachronistic soup. Now that the adventure paths are cannon (with the endings dictated by how PAIZO wants them not the player) the end result is a much duller world.

Hmmm. Another tempest in a teacup.

This was not an apology. It was a statement. It was a "heads up, shit is heavy right now around police, when we started this we were trying to walk the line between cool idea and being sensitive, but under the circumstances it's highly likely we fucked that up. We continue to support social justice and racial equality, and we're putting our money where our mouths are. Our hope is that when/if you play this AP you aren't representing horrible brutal types, and our intent was for it to be an impetus to adventure, not some implied condoning of police brutality. We hope you'll give it a shot as intended."

A full apology would have included a retraction of the product. Hence, a statement. Not an apology.

There was no indication that Paizo was taking all APs of this subject matter off the table, only that they should have gone with another less-controversial idea in hindsight. Like "had I known that 10 brutal racists cops were going to go on killing spree in May, I would have shelved this idea for a post-police-reform time period." He is trying to walk a fine line here, which a ton of companies are doing to survive in the Age of Outrage. Pointing and Paizo as screaming "stop acting like the 2nd largest gaming company in America you shills" is pretty ignorant. No money = no company. The math is pretty simple. You may not like doing what you're told but Erik Mona is fine with it as long as his masters keep buying shit. It's a choice, not a lifestyle.

All this other nonsense you all are injecting into the conversation is simply talking points from your Red flags vs. Blue flags pamphlets.

Look at all the false dichotomies everyone is desperate to oppose on you;

• Supporting BLM means you don't support police.
• Supporting BLM means you don't support white people, or other people, or people people.
• Supporting the police means you hate black people.
• Supporting white creators means you hate black creators.
• Supporting black creators means you hate white creators.
• Supporting non-creators means you hate creators.
• People who put the TP roll serving sheets under-roll will destroy all over-roll adherents.
• Doing what you want instead of what I tell you makes you a bad person.

Common folks. We know all this is bullshit.

How can we be a bulwark against the Outrage Brigade if we become the Outrage Brigade? Relax... Erik Mona wasn't pissing in your Wheaties.

Quote from: DocJones;1136119If I GMed this Paizo AP, I'd have the baddies scream "I can't breathe" every time the PCs confronted them just to see how they'd handle it.

You are the worst human being in all of earth's history!! LOL.

That's just too funny. You could add in Golarian town criers who get the town riled up with twisted versions of everything the PCs do. Police arrest a slaver? Turns out PCs ended work opportunities for poor women and children! How dare they!

Quote from: Mistwell;1136088I know everyone here thinks EnWorld has gone down some leftist hole or something, but y'all should check out the thread on this topic over there. The majority of posts were "Damn, this is some stupid stuff right here".  There were some differing opinions, but the average response was "This seems over the top."

Good for them. It's getting so even the fence sitters can smell the bullshit.