Uh, hold up. Don't "take a stand" by disavowing certain games you enjoy playing because you disagree with the political views of the authors. Play the games that you have fun playing or, as is sometimes the case unfortunately, the games that you dislike the least that you can get other people to play with you.

What is being touted here as "the only solution" to this strife between progressive and conservative (or however you want to phrase it) RPG players is only furthering the strife. It is a bad idea, and dumb, and not going to do any good for anyone. Just chill, play the games you like, and spend about as much energy thinking about all this crap as you do about which clothes you're going to wear today. Because, by the way, the latter is more important.

Quote from: Warpiglet;1136057And the most annoying part of this to me, primarily a D&D player is the lack of choice.

Except that you live in the Golden Age of RPGs with tremendous choice.

There are literally HUNDREDS of fantasy RPGs (many quite excellent) both new and old to choose from. There are dozens of FREE rpgs sitting on DriveThruRPG that you can read entirely and play before spending a dime on the book. There are dozens of small press publishers making fun games. There are dozens of games from the past which are tremendous fun to revisit.

There is NO reason to play anything from WotC unless you choose to support them.

And I agree.  But what I am NOT going to do is buy any crap that promotes political garbage.  I am voting with my dollars but not giving up the ship.

My buddy thinks this will be cyclical and die down.  I think he too optimistic, dunno.  Glad however to be able to 'publicly' be angry here.  My third post and I have not been kicked out so there is that...

Quote from: Ratman_tf;1136012

Greetings!

*Laughing* Ahh, Ratman. Fucking HILARIOUS! I know, the whole editorial "apology" Geesus. Erik Mona is so fucking choking on sucking up to the morons. So concerned about making anyone feel "uncomfortable". Gaaahhh! Yeah, pour bleach into my eyes, my friend!:D

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1136046SJW's hate edge at its very core.

You say that with no evidence to back that up.

QuoteYou're a moralist and you just hate the fact that the SJW's are doing to the Christians and Jews what your side did to old Pagan Europe many centuries ago.

I come from an eastern European post-USSR background so please don't put words in my mouth. I very politely didn't bring your religious beliefs into this, and I still won't do it.
I hate what the SJWs are doing from a level of what Communists did in Eastern Europe. And I'm telling you that what worked to bring into the existence of the USSR was not what ended it.

And as for the most mainstream 'problematic' product on the tabletop market today? Warhammer 40K.

Quote from: Trinculoisdead;1136060Uh, hold up. Don't "take a stand" by disavowing certain games you enjoy playing because you disagree with the political views of the authors. Play the games that you have fun playing or, as is sometimes the case unfortunately, the games that you dislike the least that you can get other people to play with you.

What is being touted here as "the only solution" to this strife between progressive and conservative (or however you want to phrase it) RPG players is only furthering the strife. It is a bad idea, and dumb, and not going to do any good for anyone. Just chill, play the games you like, and spend about as much energy thinking about all this crap as you do about which clothes you're going to wear today. Because, by the way, the latter is more important.

What amuses me is that the product is already going to be published. Anyone boycotting this adventure path would be boycotting based on an online statement from the company, and not the content of the product itself.
Which has my tinfoil hat wiggling. Paizo puts out a "problematic" product, apologizes over it, and still gets to sell it and make money. Very convenient.

Anywhoodle. You say this isn't important. But as consumers we have our opinions. Here at therpgsite, we can voice them. This kind of colonization of the industry frankly honks me off. They take tiny steps and then sprint for the finish line. I don't want more products yarking about how "progressive and inclusive" they are. The words are toxic now. And I really don't blame anyone who wants to boycott this crap in a preemtive move to let the companies know we don't like it.
If they insist on being jackasses, and the product turns into a progressive mush of offensive inoffensiveness, we can say "We told you so".

Looks like Erik Mona and Paizo have gone full Fred Hicks and Evil Hat.

They are not going to cancel the product because they will lose profit. Yet suddenly grow a conscience and apologize for the material in it.

Quote from: tenbones;1136011GunMetal Games just did this for Interface Zero 3.0 too. Very disappointing.

  LOL, I should have nabbed that copy of 2.0 the other day after all.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee;1136065You say that with no evidence to back that up.



I come from an eastern European post-USSR background so please don't put words in my mouth. I very politely didn't bring your religious beliefs into this, and I still won't do it.
I hate what the SJWs are doing from a level of what Communists did in Eastern Europe. And I'm telling you that what worked to bring into the existence of the USSR was not what ended it.

And as for the most mainstream 'problematic' product on the tabletop market today? Warhammer 40K.

"Edgy" culture did not bring the USSR to power. WWI did.

Lenin could not have taken over Russia were it not for the huge clusterfuck of World War I and how it hit the Russian Empire very hard economically and militarily.

Also, Warhammer 40K is not "problematic" enough for today's cultural war in my eyes. It's the cultural equivalent of putting a small band-aid on a gunshot wound.

Warhammer 40k is for sure problematic as hell for today's culture war.  Given they have a couple RPGs cycling around, it will be MUCH more problematic if they catch traction with the RPG crowds.  War game crowds seem a whole lot more involved in maximizing mathematical advantages first and everything else is in a distant line from that. I can appreciate spending energy on it may not change much, but it tends to help to relieve pressure in my opinion.  

    I just read Bad Robot's "Guide to Dismantling White Supremacy at Work" and oh boy.....If a big name, powerful media company like that is going to go balls out marxist propaganda, I do not see any way for the big rpg companies to not follow suit, or worse try to get ahead of Bad Robot (which IMO would be impossible because they have gone as far as you can get).

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1136076"Edgy" culture did not bring the USSR to power. WWI did.

There where many factions vying for control of the Russian Empire. This destabilization happened even before WWI. But there were reasons why the communists won in the end and understanding propaganda was perhaps one of the most vital for them, including removing enemy institutions like the church. The fact you don't know or ignore this tells me we won't make any progress and I end the conversation.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1136004Just in case they latter want to memory hole it

http://archive.is/tUSdC

^Should be standard procedure when not wanting to give traffic to a site.

Also...

QuoteWhen we began work early last year on Agents of Edgewatch, we conceived of the adventures as a pseudo-Victorian crime drama in which a party of Sherlock Holmeses would bring a cult of sinister murderers to justice against the backdrop of a World's Fair-style celebration in Absalom, the huge city at the center of the Pathfinder world. Along the way, we'd dabble in some buddy cop movie tropes and use the players' role as new and idealistic town guards as a framing device for a tour of the city as they attempt to thwart the evil cult's machinations.

In our heads, this was a classic detective story, not a chance for players to act out power fantasies of being militarized police officers oppressing citizens. As publisher, I was confident that we could steer well clear of egregious parallels to modern police violence and handle the material responsibly.

But there's more to it than that...

SWEET BABY JESUS ON A BLANKET! These people! WTF?

What da hell is it with people's inability to separate contemporary politics and literary tropes? Why do they feel the need to fit their political soapbox into everything and look at it through a strictly modern and politically biased lens? We can no longer run a buddy cop crime adventure without people tripping over themselves to apologize for political shit that doesn't need to have any place or relation to these stories.

This hyper-moralistic and pampering mindset! Always trying to find faults with everything that supposedly makes people "UnCoNfOrTaBlE" and we have to protect them from it in the hopes of thwarting off some sort of "pernicious" effect that will somehow find its way from a Pathfinder adventure to the glorification of militarized police violence.

For those who are triggered by playing local law enforcement subject to rules and regulations, Paizo instead provides the opportunity to instead to play a party of vigilantes to lynch the baddies.
One can only laugh at their mental illness.

Not just vigalantes, but those who act in the name of the local power structure, and KILL, not imprison the wrong doers, as well as taking all their stuff and in the case of many creatures Genocide whole tribes of them..  They are like private contractor SWAT teams compared to police.

Quote from: Ghostmaker;1136035What's funny is that it could be a useful teaching moment, but of course Paizo blows it.

'Police forces' back in the day consisted of whatever pack of kneebreakers worked for the local powers-that-be. Punishments could be doled out on the spot (beatings, etc). Hell, in prisons you had NO amenities or even basics -- your family had to bring it to you and hope the wardens didn't steal too much.

Back a bit further they could be worse, no prisons just quick and nasty punishments (nose and ears cut off for poaching for instance). Somehow, lots of people don't grasp that and treat fantasy watches like modern police not the enforcers for the local sherrif / lord / bigwig.