Due to the smashing success of the Werewolf 20 Kickstarter, it seems all but a foregone conclusion that there will be a Mage 20 Kickstarter.  There seems to be a lot more fan interest in this than Werewolf.  Tell me your thoughts, and what you hope might be included.  It seems fairly evident that this will be a metaplot free edition, and a serious attempt to heal a fan community heavily schismed by edition wars.

The rules for Nephandi, Marauder and the like should be in there I think. The Horizon Realms and the like, too. Hedge Magic, meh. Not really needed IMO. I'm not even absolutely certain I want to invest in Mage 20 to be honest. My main game was always Vampire the Masquerade, and my MtA Revised hardcover is in great shape.

I'm still on the fence about Werewolf 20 btw.

Quote from: Benoist;594042The rules for Nephandi, Marauder and the like should be in there I think. The Horizon Realms and the like, too. Hedge Magic, meh. Not really needed IMO. I'm not even absolutely certain I want to invest in Mage 20 to be honest. My main game was always Vampire the Masquerade, and my MtA Revised hardcover is in great shape.

I'm still on the fence about Werewolf 20 btw.

I signed on for the $35 level which will get me the PDF.  I'm not gaming Werewolf hardcore, but I had a lot of fun with it back in the day and it is a pretty important WW milestone game.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;594050I signed on for the $35 level which will get me the PDF.  I'm not gaming Werewolf hardcore, but I had a lot of fun with it back in the day and it is a pretty important WW milestone game.

No question about it. I really like Werewolf actually, and just like you, I had a blast playing games with it, especially when it came out, as opposed to years later with the Skinchangers, the Mokole and werethis and that and the like. I still have my original copy on my shelf.

The reason I'm on the fence is purely economic. If I'm in, I'm in for the print deluxe version, and I'm not sure I really want to dedicate the cash that would have to go to it ($150 US or so) rather than say, on various supplements or modules for games I'm actually currently using. If I don't get into the kickstarter, I could always get the POD version through DriveThru when all is said and done.

A "greatest hits" compilation of 2e material. Technocracy, Nephandi, etc.

I haven't really looked into V20, and I was only peripherally aware of W20.

I have a love-hate relationship with Mage: The Ascension because it's one of these games that I had an absolute blast playing and reading as a 18-year-old, but the premise kind of aged badly for me (or maybe I aged badly for the premise? ). This, and my love of Mage: The Awakening (a game which touches mostly on the same themes, yet far more subtle), kind of kept me from thinking much about Ascension the last few years.

Off the top of my head, I'd like to see a "Mage: The Ascension Rules Cyclopedia." Every Tradition, Convention and Craft, Marauders and Nephandi, a comprehensive cosmology with denizens for each level of the Umbra and at least a few examples of far Realms, detailed rules for creating Talismans and for building and running Chantries, a decent list of Rotes to get the reality-twisting juices flowing, and art. Oodles of beautiful B&W art, including big Joshua Gabriel Timbrook portraits for each splat.

I don't think I'll chip in for the same reason I didn't get V20 (a hard copy is prohibitively expensive for us overseas), but I'll be watching with interest.

LOL!!! Just noticed the avatar and title, Butcher!!

(Check out area (95) here and following if you didn't get it)

I want Wraith20 and Changeling20! Go people, go forth and buy Werewolf and Mage so that I can get Changeling20!

An admission that the whole "Science, Technology and Western Civilization are EVIL!" thing was fucking retarded?

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;594410An admission that the whole "Science, Technology and Western Civilization are EVIL!" thing was fucking retarded?

Guide to the Technocracy doesn't quite fit the bill but it's at least halfway there, as it does a good job of presenting the Technocracy as (potentially) good guys.

But yeah, that's probably half my beef with Ascension right there.

Quote from: RPGPundit;594410An admission that the whole "Science, Technology and Western Civilization are EVIL!" thing was fucking retarded?

RPGPundit

Pundit, you're just coming in here to stir up shit.  That was more bleed over from Werewolf and Changeling.

Mage has always been a very leftist game, in that western capitalism is full of stinking shit on toast, but most of the Nine Traditions are archetypes that come from western classics, with the remainder made up of pastiches of mad scientists from literature and common cyberpunk tropes.  There was some bullshit to that degree, but that was ditched by the 2nd edition of the game. Mage at it's core is essentially Occupy Wall Street with magic powers.  The Invisibles is a good template for an Ascension game, but with human antagonists.

If you had played the game, you'd know that scientists are common PC options for members of most Traditions.  Mage was all Science=GOOD, Control and lust for power=BAD.  The Mage Revised Storyteller's guide makes that clear, specifically that the Technocracy is essentially anti-science, despite it's trappings, since it alters and falsifies the experimental data of sleeper scientists.

A PC in my Skype Mage game is a physicist who works at UC Berkely who's also a member of the Order of Hermes and a hardcore Thelemite.

What I want in Mage 20 -

Metaplot neutral setting, with sidebars for if people want the Avatar Storm and the like

A rote system similar to Awakening
A revised magick system that uses Arete+Sphere and a 10 die pool as a base, with fixed difficulty numbers and success based measures of results
Legacies, transported over from Awakening, that represent secret lodges, orders and cults within the wider traditions
Full rules for playable Technocracy PCs in the core
Lots of example rotes that describe and educate on game play
Good, evocative art
A strong chapter devoted to cosmology and the umbra, including many sample spirits
Concrete rules for constructing Sanctums and Horizon Realms
Simplied rules for Talisman construction taken from Forged In Dragon's Fire
Grimoires, from the same supplement
Full supporting merits, flaws and adversarial backgrounds
Basic rules for changing the local paradigm
A simple, concise explanation on what paradigm is, as it means in the game
Advice for players and GMs on magick style

... and I'm sure I can think of a few more, give me time.

Quote from: RPGPundit;594410An admission that the whole "Science, Technology and Western Civilization are EVIL!" thing was fucking retarded?

RPGPundit

This.
Not to mention an admission that most people around the world are still more familiar with traditional religion (including what could be called 'witchcraft') than the workings of technology, so "it's vulgar because of the Consensus" is bogus.

JG

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;594426Mage has always been a very leftist game, in that western capitalism is full of stinking shit on toast, but most of the Nine Traditions are archetypes that come from western classics, with the remainder made up of pastiches of mad scientists from literature and common cyberpunk tropes.  There was some bullshit to that degree, but that was ditched by the 2nd edition of the game. Mage at it's core is essentially Occupy Wall Street with magic powers.  The Invisibles is a good template for an Ascension game, but with human antagonists.

One could make this argument by the time of Players' Guide to the Technocracy, which was itself a reflection of the fact that players' own personal experience with the real world, not to mention their investigation of the Traditions versus the Conventions, meant that White Wolf needed to present the setting with a little more nuance.

The first few Tradition and Convention books were not very good at nuance.

JG

I have what I want out of Mage via MtAw. So I guess what I would like to see is some internal consistensence? It's supposed to be a game not a hackneyed take on Philosophy 101. It kind of worked for me when I was foolish young lady in her early 20's but it's good for nothing to me, as a woman definitely NOT in her 20's. I moved on to Philosophy 201/301 years ago and MtAs needs to do the same.  Imperial Mysteries for example is high level Mage done right. Mage20 needs to steal several things from his aqua sister for me to seriously care.