Quote from: DavetheLost;910210Citation and quote of the 1e designers saying that this was so in Shadowrun 1e?

I'll see what I can find, but this was in the days before widespread gamer Internet access outside of Usenet.  It was in a printed zine or something, IIRC.

That said, it can't be that hard to track down Paul Hume and Tom Dowd and just ask them.

Okay good stuff on this thread (I also met Olivier Gruner in Venice Beach and he was telling me and my friends about his movie Nemesis. My reaction after seeing it was like yours. Except we were already playing CP2020 at the time so it landed perfectly.)

I can't speak about SR - but I'll toss some bits about CP2020 Martial Arts

CP Martial arts can be *very* simple or very complex if you toss in the rules from Pacific Rim. In CP2020 you simply roll your attack (Ref+Martial Art Skill+d10) but the TYPE of attack matters. There is a table for manuevers - each Martial Art type gives you a bonus to do certain maneuvers. So you get those as bonuses to the attack roll. The damage is depending on what you hit with. Fist is 1d6/2 and a kick is d6 + your SKILL RANK. So someone with a 7-10 in their Martial Art is kicking harder than your average low-caliber gunshot. Add in enhancements like Cyberlegs (2d6 - with modifications that can take it higher) - and yeah you can kick the fucking head off an opponent with frightening ease.

To Defend - the defenders gets to roll their Ref+Skill+d10 and apply a martial art defense maneuver bonus (if any).

So yeah it has this lethal Bloodsport effect where badasses will quickly kick the shit out of those who aren't badasses. But put two badasses together? And you can have a surprisingly exciting slugfest like Bruce Lee vs. Chuck "Hairy Chest Era" Norris in the fake Colosseum.

If you decide to bring Pacific Rim into the mix - then you're cranking up the complexity (too much imo). They have ranges for combat - Striking, Trapping, Grappling. And those ranges further change the bonuses of the specific martial arts.

Overall - hand-to-hand in CP2020 can be beautifully brutal and fast.

IZ2 - It's dangerous like any SW game is. Once you add Cyberware and the right Edges, it feels very cinematic and can be extremely deadly to those less skilled. To opponents of equal caliber - you can have those tense multi-round fights, but it doesn't QUITE match the speed and directness of CP2020. But it's still very good.

Quote from: Bren;908914How so? Unlike data, minerals have mass and size. A corporate spy can't steal 10 tons of iridium and hide it in her shiny, aluminum briefcase.

One of the best adventures we played in CP was to steal genetic data.... in the form of a horse!

Quote from: tenbones;922547Okay good stuff on this thread (I also met Olivier Gruner in Venice Beach and he was telling me and my friends about his movie Nemesis. My reaction after seeing it was like yours. Except we were already playing CP2020 at the time so it landed perfectly.)

I can't speak about SR - but I'll toss some bits about CP2020 Martial Arts

CP Martial arts can be *very* simple or very complex if you toss in the rules from Pacific Rim. In CP2020 you simply roll your attack (Ref+Martial Art Skill+d10) but the TYPE of attack matters. There is a table for manuevers - each Martial Art type gives you a bonus to do certain maneuvers. So you get those as bonuses to the attack roll. The damage is depending on what you hit with. Fist is 1d6/2 and a kick is d6 + your SKILL RANK. So someone with a 7-10 in their Martial Art is kicking harder than your average low-caliber gunshot. Add in enhancements like Cyberlegs (2d6 - with modifications that can take it higher) - and yeah you can kick the fucking head off an opponent with frightening ease.

To Defend - the defenders gets to roll their Ref+Skill+d10 and apply a martial art defense maneuver bonus (if any).

So yeah it has this lethal Bloodsport effect where badasses will quickly kick the shit out of those who aren't badasses. But put two badasses together? And you can have a surprisingly exciting slugfest like Bruce Lee vs. Chuck "Hairy Chest Era" Norris in the fake Colosseum.

If you decide to bring Pacific Rim into the mix - then you're cranking up the complexity (too much imo). They have ranges for combat - Striking, Trapping, Grappling. And those ranges further change the bonuses of the specific martial arts.

Overall - hand-to-hand in CP2020 can be beautifully brutal and fast.

IZ2 - It's dangerous like any SW game is. Once you add Cyberware and the right Edges, it feels very cinematic and can be extremely deadly to those less skilled. To opponents of equal caliber - you can have those tense multi-round fights, but it doesn't QUITE match the speed and directness of CP2020. But it's still very good.

Got to be on the ball with those humanity rolls though. They can and will fuck you up, and therapy is something that takes time.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1044931Got to be on the ball with those humanity rolls though. They can and will fuck you up, and therapy is something that takes time.

Nice Necrokick-rez!

c'mon man - no one going full cyber gives a toss about humanity! That just gets in the way!

Quote from: tenbones;1045211Nice Necrokick-rez!

c'mon man - no one going full cyber gives a toss about humanity! That just gets in the way!

Going full brain in jar bottoms your humanity. Sure, you're an unstoppable juggernaut (until the anti-borg weapons come into play), but you're so damned crazy you might as well be a 40k Dreadnaught and put to sleep between massacres.

Quote from: tenbones;1045211Nice Necrokick-rez!

c'mon man - no one going full cyber gives a toss about humanity! That just gets in the way!

As one player said, "Humanity... I'll buy the chip!"

I guess I'm the usual forum weirdo who likes SR 5E ( though 4E had better editing). 4E and later fixed all the flaws that 3E did imo. Until $E almost no one at my tables wanted to play a hacker because imo the system built around that class was utter and complete shit. Yeah 4E then 5E has it's issues at least it made my group and myself want to run the matrix again at our tables. Where before we had to be paid a minimum six figure amount to do so. I never plated Cyberpunk 2020. I have heard of it and know those that have. I guess I preferred magic with my Cyberpunk even if it was not strictly in genre. Has everyone forgotten the terrible art that the latest edition had. Poser art in a rpg where the figures looked like barbie dolls on the page.

I'll throw my hat in the ring for Shadowrun Anarchy. It's the rules-light/narrative version (based off 5e). My group's had a lot of fun running old modules using Anarchy. Conversion is a snap.

However the book is horribly laid out. Finding what few rules there are, can be difficult. Fortunately there's a free fan-made Narration Aid out on the net, and it really helps to fill in some of the gaps in the game system.

I feel like I'm the only person who liked SR 1e.  I remember when 2e came out, those of us playing didn't like the changes, although I can't recall what was different in that edition.

We played SR 1e as a Monty Haul campaign with a heavy focus on guns, guns, guns.  It's been about twenty years since I played SR.  I've been thinking about doing something with it, but I'd definitely do things differently than what the crew used to.

I liked CP2020 more, but few people in the old crew agreed.  I didn't particularly like the fantasy elements of SR and wanted a game where it was pure sci-fi.  Even though I liked SR1e, I liked the Interlock system more.

As for Matrix/Netrunning stuff, we never did that.  The guy GMing the game didn't understand the rules for it in SR.  I think my preferred Matrix rules would be a hybrid of those in SR1e and CP2013.

Quote from: Gabriel2;1045354As for Matrix/Netrunning stuff, we never did that.  The guy GMing the game didn't understand the rules for it in SR.  I think my preferred Matrix rules would be a hybrid of those in SR1e and CP2013.

A GM who understood the Matrix rules and how to keep it moving along quickly is golden.  My buddy and I who both took turns running SR3 both played and deckers so we knew it well.  The SR3 rules were actually pretty good.  Once you mastered them.  Which was the hump you had to get over.

Ditto with the Vehicle Chase/Rigging rules.

The world of Shadowrun was always very interesting. The RULES of Shadowrun were always varying degrees of terrible.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1046570The world of Shadowrun was always very interesting. The RULES of Shadowrun were always varying degrees of terrible.

Can't argue with that.

Only way I managed to run SR4 was by deciding which rules fit both the group and story and throwing the rest out.

Not once has the rule for treading water ever been used, and I think the chunky salsa rule got used once.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1046570The world of Shadowrun was always very interesting. The RULES of Shadowrun were always varying degrees of terrible.

Yup.

Edit:  Although I did not like the direction the setting took from after the conclusion of the Renraku Arcology shutdown.  Brainscan was an incredibly fun campaign to run and my players still talk about it.  SURGE and the comet and the second Matrix crash which led into 4th was terrible and the line developers from then on wanted to focus on transhumanism and utopianism instead of what made Shadowrun awesome.

Quote from: KingCheops;1046626Yup.

Edit:  Although I did not like the direction the setting took from after the conclusion of the Renraku Arcology shutdown.  Brainscan was an incredibly fun campaign to run and my players still talk about it.  SURGE and the comet and the second Matrix crash which led into 4th was terrible and the line developers from then on wanted to focus on transhumanism and utopianism instead of what made Shadowrun awesome.

True. The pre-4th stuff was better, setting-wise.