Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105638As far as I'm concerned anyone asking for the X-Card be implemented at the table isn't a suitable person to game with.

"Alright folks before we get started did anyone bring an X-Card with you?" Looks around the room, "OK, those with X-Cards can leave now so we can get the game started."

It used to be that at college dorms women had a curfew whereas men did not. This was to protect women from being raped, and fathers paying for and sending their daughters to college certainly approved. A vocal minority of women then claimed they wanted "equality", that is to say they wanted the freedom to risk being raped. Granted that freedom, they now complain about the "rape culture" on campus and demand "safe spaces" and so on. It seems that women want to be protected after all.

So-called safety rules and conflating rpgs with bdsm are all about our culture trying out this experiment where we blend the gender hierarchies. Men gaming with men, or men working together on oil rigs for that matter, don't need special safety rules or safe words. Men bully and harass each other as a natural way of weeding out useless, dependent males. It's only natural that women would find such behavior threatening. Feminists demand that men socialize according to female rules.

I've watched girls role-playing with each other and it's not something I want to be a part of any more than I want to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Let them have their fun. Let us men have our own fun.

N.a.w.a.l.t.

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1105712I've watched girls role-playing with each other and it's not something I want to be a part of any more than I want to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Let them have their fun. Let us men have our own fun.

Sure, throw the baby out with the bathwater.  Normal people don't have any trouble gaming together, across genders or otherwise.  Now, if a particular game at a particular table happens to have a more selective appeal, then nothing wrong with that.  But I'll keep the baby, thanks.

Quote from: Bren;1105689If having guns prevented people from being assholes we'd be living in a completely different country.

It's not about "preventing people from being assholes," it's about letting non-assholes possess tools to dissuade and deal with assholes and most importantly be secure in their own personal and immediate safety. "We'd be living in a completely different country" is such a vague, contextless statement I'm not sure how to address that.

Quote from: Bren;1105689It just gives you armed assholes. Which is no improvement at all.

This is a nearly-irrelevant half-truth, and you miss the point entirely.

Beyond that, this is clearly off-topic so I'll not take the subject further but I'm sure people would be happy to discuss and debate the topic in Pundit's forum if anyone has the desire to.

Quote from: Crimhthan;1105699"Alright folks before we get started did anyone bring an X-Card with you?" Looks around the room, "OK, those with X-Cards can leave now so we can get the game started."

Pretty much yeah.

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1105712It used to be that at college dorms women had a curfew whereas men did not. This was to protect women from being raped, and fathers paying for and sending their daughters to college certainly approved. A vocal minority of women then claimed they wanted "equality", that is to say they wanted the freedom to risk being raped. Granted that freedom, they now complain about the "rape culture" on campus and demand "safe spaces" and so on. It seems that women want to be protected after all.

Not women, feminists demanded and got what I think was right, this was the second wave, mostly sex positive feminists. Went to war with the sex negative ones and won the battle but lost the war since those went to work in academia. Women in general have always (and probably will always) wanted to be protected, it's millions of years of evolution.

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1105712So-called safety rules and conflating rpgs with bdsm are all about our culture trying out this experiment where we blend the gender hierarchies. Men gaming with men, or men working together on oil rigs for that matter, don't need special safety rules or safe words. Men bully and harass each other as a natural way of weeding out useless, dependent males. It's only natural that women would find such behavior threatening. Feminists demand that men socialize according to female rules.

Yeas, groups of only men or women act different than mixed ones, but for millennia now we've had also mixed groups for certain things, like proms, and such. And the etiquette for such gatherings is different for both sexes. Yes Feminists demand men act like women.

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1105712I've watched girls role-playing with each other and it's not something I want to be a part of any more than I want to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Let them have their fun. Let us men have our own fun.

As per my previous point you play with who you want, I'm not who to tell anybody otherwise but. Given the right kind of woman and the right kind of game we can have fun together. Which is that right kind? It depends it's not the same for everyone.

What I find annoying is the double standard of places like roll20, where you can have women only groups but not men only ones. And sometimes I want to play without worrying about hurting female sensibilities.

Women are already starting to push back against the SJW harpies.  Sadly, young women are still being indoctrinated en mass, but the tide is turning.  

I have two little girls, so I've seen my fair share of "Friendship is Magic".  

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1105712So-called safety rules and conflating rpgs with bdsm are all about our culture trying out this experiment where we blend the gender hierarchies. Men gaming with men, or men working together on oil rigs for that matter, don't need special safety rules or safe words. Men bully and harass each other as a natural way of weeding out useless, dependent males. It's only natural that women would find such behavior threatening. Feminists demand that men socialize according to female rules.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105744Yeas, groups of only men or women act different than mixed ones, but for millennia now we've had also mixed groups for certain things, like proms, and such. And the etiquette for such gatherings is different for both sexes. Yes Feminists demand men act like women.

Bullying and harassment among men might well be natural and around for millenia -- but that doesn't make them a good thing. Stuff like democracy, free speech, tolerance, and forgiveness may not be in our genes -- but they're positive changes in human behavior from recent times.

I don't want my male-only games to be full of bullying and harassment. That's not behaving like women, in my opinion. That's just behaving like a decent human being. If a disabled man joins our group, maybe the evolutionary instinct is to weed him out by bullying him until he breaks -- but that's not behavior I want in my game.

Quote from: Cloyer Bulse;1105712I've watched girls role-playing with each other and it's not something I want to be a part of any more than I want to watch My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. Let them have their fun. Let us men have our own fun.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105744As per my previous point you play with who you want, I'm not who to tell anybody otherwise but. Given the right kind of woman and the right kind of game we can have fun together. Which is that right kind? It depends it's not the same for everyone.

What I find annoying is the double standard of places like roll20, where you can have women only groups but not men only ones. And sometimes I want to play without worrying about hurting female sensibilities

I don't have a problem with men-only groups, though in practice, I find that it's pretty easy to achieve. Just pitch things the right way, and women won't sign up. As far as sensibilities go, though, I think it's better to filter directly for the sensibilities rather than on the sex of the players. There are women players who are just as crude and crass as any man players I've played with; and there are man players who are sensitive and/or shy.

When I ran my all-male-PC Conan game, the two women players were just as enthusiastic as the man players -- often moreso. They definitely got into playing up the manly barbarians.

Quote from: jhkim;1105812Bullying and harassment among men might well be natural and around for millenia -- but that doesn't make them a good thing. Stuff like democracy, free speech, tolerance, and forgiveness may not be in our genes -- but they're positive changes in human behavior from recent times.

I don't want my male-only games to be full of bullying and harassment. That's not behaving like women, in my opinion. That's just behaving like a decent human being. If a disabled man joins our group, maybe the evolutionary instinct is to weed him out by bullying him until he breaks -- but that's not behavior I want in my game.

It's a good thing then that nowhere do I say anything about Bullying and harassment eh? Also you don't know or interact with many women do you? They are the worst bullies and harassers of all, remember the mean girls clique? And of all the bullied and harassed women in the world 50% were so by other women. You need to forget your WAW-MAM (Women Are Wonderful - Men Are Monsters) paradigm.

Quote from: jhkim;1105812I don't have a problem with men-only groups, though in practice, I find that it's pretty easy to achieve. Just pitch things the right way, and women won't sign up. As far as sensibilities go, though, I think it's better to filter directly for the sensibilities rather than on the sex of the players. There are women players who are just as crude and crass as any man players I've played with; and there are man players who are sensitive and/or shy.

When I ran my all-male-PC Conan game, the two women players were just as enthusiastic as the man players -- often moreso. They definitely got into playing up the manly barbarians.

And yet women in roll20 are allowed to have women only groups, while a man needs to dance around and if a woman comes he has to find a good enough reason to reject her or else. Do you see the double standard? No of course you don't.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105816It's a good thing then that nowhere do I say anything about Bullying and harassment eh? Also you don't know or interact with many women do you? They are the worst bullies and harassers of all, remember the mean girls clique? And of all the bullied and harassed women in the world 50% were so by other women. You need to forget your WAW-MAM (Women Are Wonderful - Men Are Monsters) paradigm.

GeekyBugle - CloyerBulse spoke about bullying and harassment in Post #32. I've bolded the text in the quote below.

Quote from: Cloyer BulseSo-called safety rules and conflating rpgs with bdsm are all about our culture trying out this experiment where we blend the gender hierarchies. Men gaming with men, or men working together on oil rigs for that matter, don't need special safety rules or safe words. Men bully and harass each other as a natural way of weeding out useless, dependent males. It's only natural that women would find such behavior threatening. Feminists demand that men socialize according to female rules.

You quoted him and directly responding to him with agreement in Post #36.

Quote from: GeekyBugleYeas, groups of only men or women act different than mixed ones, but for millennia now we've had also mixed groups for certain things, like proms, and such. And the etiquette for such gatherings is different for both sexes. Yes Feminists demand men act like women.

From this, I concluded that you agreed about his point regarding bullying and harassment.

As for your point about women, I agree. I'm saying that the push against bullying and harassment in mixed groups isn't about making men act like women. It's about calling for both men and women to act decently.

Quote from: jhkim;1105825GeekyBugle - CloyerBulse spoke about bullying and harassment in Post #32. I've bolded the text in the quote below.



You quoted him and directly responding to him with agreement in Post #36.



From this, I concluded that you agreed about his point regarding bullying and harassment.

As for your point about women, I agree. I'm saying that the push against bullying and harassment in mixed groups isn't about making men act like women. It's about calling for both men and women to act decently.

Well you assumed wrong. I'm agreeing that gender segregated groups act different than gender mixed ones, nothing else (like my words clearly state). And that feminists demand men act like women. If you want to have an argument about the last point open a thread in Pundie's forum, I'll gladly hit you with facts until you cry uncle.

As for quoting him, how else would you know who I'm responding to?

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105826And that feminists demand men act like women.

We haven't got the ability to bully and harrass like women!

Like a Parliamentary Prorogation, who you have in your gaming group should be non-justiciable. I like mixed sex groups but I'm not going to condemn individual groups who want to be single sex. OTOH obviously there is an anti-male double standard on this, no doubt enforced mostly by men.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1105826Well you assumed wrong. I'm agreeing that gender segregated groups act different than gender mixed ones, nothing else (like my words clearly state). And that feminists demand men act like women.

I'd like to know about what your opinion is on what Cloyer Bulse said.

Quote from: Cloyer BulseSo-called safety rules and conflating rpgs with bdsm are all about our culture trying out this experiment where we blend the gender hierarchies. Men gaming with men, or men working together on oil rigs for that matter, don't need special safety rules or safe words. Men bully and harass each other as a natural way of weeding out useless, dependent males. It's only natural that women would find such behavior threatening. Feminists demand that men socialize according to female rules.

Do you have any thoughts on the whole of this?

Personally, I disagree with Cloyer Bulse thoroughly. I think that blending the gender hierarchies is a functional and good part of modern society that also includes democracy, civil rights, and gender equality. I think that there should be rules to reduce bullying and harassing in male-only spaces. I disagree that feminists as a whole demand that men socialize according to female rules. Notably, the reason why "mean girl" cliques is a recognizable trope is because of feminist critiques of that behavior -- notably Rachel Wiseman's book, which the 2004 movie "Mean Girls" was based on. We should be improving behavior in all of male-only, female-only, and mixed-gender spaces -- which includes reducing harassment and bullying.

Quote from: jhkim;1105812Bullying and harassment among men might well be natural and around for millenia -- but that doesn't make them a good thing. Stuff like democracy, free speech, tolerance, and forgiveness may not be in our genes -- but they're positive changes in human behavior from recent times.

There was a study that I read that found that if boys had a physical fight then they were more likely to be better friends after the fight whereas if girls had a verbal fight then they were less likely to be friends after the fight.