Are there any games that mix old-school simplicity, mid-school setting fluff (AD&D 2e/VtM era), and new-school mechanics that weren't eyeballed?

I started with the mid-school games, and I still like setting fluff a lot. There was something refreshing about the raw sincerity of the writing ("This Isn't the Superfriends!"), even when it looks silly today.

I'm a big fan of new school mechanical rigor, but not a big fan of metagame-heavy stuff like FATE. It feels like characters aren't doing cool things because they're competent, but because the story calls for it. It's a bit too Doyleist for me.

And old-school is something I've always been impressed with, but older D&D is geared more toward logistics and I want something a little more plotty like some of the later AD&D 2e modules. Also, I'd like something that scales a little better in combat, but isn't soulless or devoid of quirks.

Any games like this?

Try Dungeon World.

Quote from: Old Geezer;721122Try Dungeon World.

Wow. I'd gotten the impression that it was a bit FATE-esque, but if you're recommending it, I'll give it a look. It's free, anyway. *shrugs*

Thanks!

For me, that's Mazes & Minotaurs.
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

It's free with a community which has added lots of fluff. It's based on OD&D re-envisioned through modern mechanics so while the game play is solidly old school, the system is a well designed machine.

Another game to consider is Warrior, Rogue & Mage.
http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/

Again, its free, its old school inspired, but more about building characters in a solid system. As for fluff, there is some community development, but WRM has a half dozen free supplements.

I imagine Warhammer Fantasy 2e would also fit your definition, but I am firmly in the WFRP 1e camp. You may want to check out Zweihander as it develops as well. The art is really nice. Totally worth a look.

Zweihander
http://grimandperilous.com/

Quote from: Zeea;721115Are there any games that mix old-school simplicity, mid-school setting fluff (AD&D 2e/VtM era), and new-school mechanics that weren't eyeballed?

I started with the mid-school games, and I still like setting fluff a lot. There was something refreshing about the raw sincerity of the writing ("This Isn't the Superfriends!"), even when it looks silly today.

I'm a big fan of new school mechanical rigor, but not a big fan of metagame-heavy stuff like FATE. It feels like characters aren't doing cool things because they're competent, but because the story calls for it. It's a bit too Doyleist for me.

And old-school is something I've always been impressed with, but older D&D is geared more toward logistics and I want something a little more plotty like some of the later AD&D 2e modules. Also, I'd like something that scales a little better in combat, but isn't soulless or devoid of quirks.

Any games like this?

Well...if you're talking D&D type stuff:

Best bet imo would most likely be Blood & Treasure (Yes I know, I'm a fanboy, it's my fave osr system...). It's basically Basic D&D + AD&D + some 3e. Crunch wise I'd say "streamlined AD&D". It's got all the classic stuff + some new stuff + some stuff its creator has come up with based on more obscure stuff, and mixes it all pretty well, with some surprises (frex it's got 1e style Half-Orcs, but 3e style Gnomes; 1e style Rangers and Assassins, but also 3e Sorcerers; and so on), like how he's added an alternative version of each class. Like the light-armored swashbuckler class, the Duelist, whose alternate version is an archer; or the Druid, whose alternative version is the Beastmaster; etc. Mechanics vise, I'd say this game'd be what you're looking for.

(B&T's creator also makes the awesome Nod Magazine, allthough that's mainly geared towards Swords & Wizardry (he started Nod long before creating B&T). The Nod setting is very oldschool mind, a fairly gonzo sandbox hexcrawl. Very imaginative mind (frex for the "European" part of the setting he added lots of European folklore & fairytale monsters). However I'm not sure that'd be your thing.)


BTW I'm basically a "middleschool" dude myself, my first system was BECMI but I'm really a 2e guy.

BTW agreed on FATE, it seems like a good enough system (and I should probably get the Dresden rpg since I'm a DF fanboy) but...too meta for me really.

Quote from: SpinachcatFor me, that's Mazes & Minotaurs.
http://mazesandminotaurs.free.fr/

It's free with a community which has added lots of fluff. It's based on OD&D re-envisioned through modern mechanics so while the game play is solidly old school, the system is a well designed machine.

Seconded, Mazes & Minotaurs is tons and tons of fun, and it's got a quite "middleschool" setting that I think would appeal to the OP.

Well if into sword & sandal, Harryhausen, etc, that'd probably help. Its a what-if: "what if the first RPG was inspired by Mythic Greece & Harryhousen rather than the Middle Ages & Tolkien?"

Sounds like Torchbearer to me.

Welcome, Zeea!

It sounds from your OP that by "new school" you mean "mechanically consistent" rather than "storygamey". Is this correct?

If so, I'd point you towards Castles & Crusades. Super-simple unified task resolution mechanic with old school dressing. Can do middle-school AD&D 2e-ish fantasy in a pinch.

I do have one caveat: I'm not a fan of the SIEGE mechanic, for reasons I've expounded elsewhere, along with a quick and easy houseruled fix.

Lamentations of the Flame Princess is a fairly mechanically tight rewrite of B/X D&D, as is Adventurer Conqueror King. However, LotFP is more oriented towards horrific dark fantasy, and ACKS makes a huge deal out of logistics at higher levels, so neither sounds like your cup of tea.

But if by "new school" you mean "narrativist", I'd probably go with Dungeon World as per OG's suggestion. Not familiar with Torchbearer but it looks like it's strictly focused on dungeon crawling.

Quote from: The Butcher;721184It sounds from your OP that by "new school" you mean "mechanically consistent" rather than "storygamey". Is this correct?

If so, I'd point you towards Castles & Crusades. Super-simple unified task resolution mechanic with old school dressing. Can do middle-school AD&D 2e-ish fantasy in a pinch.

I was going to suggest C&C as well. The spells and base rules are taken directly from the 3E SRD, so you get a lot of the "modern" stuff, but it has more of an AD&D feel to it.

You might also look at DCC RPG, which was built with the idea that game designers know what we know now, but go back to the literary inspirations that caused the game to be created back in the 1970's. Lots of neat features (fighters get cool feat-like powers, spells are deadly) and a great atmosphere.

It may not be exactly what you're after, being exotic fantasy rather than D&D (high fantasy?) but there's Talislanta. It has a very detailed setting and lots of character options, with a reasonably straightforward system that was IMHO a bit ahead of its time (universal mechanics, non-random chargen, etc.). More or less the entire library of Tal supplements are free at talislanta.com

Try Swords & Wizardry Core Rules, plus my Majestic Wilderlands Supplement.

Basically I take S&W and add a ability system to handle skilled activity along with a dozen roleplaying heavy classes. A distillation of the type of game I been running for 20+ years converted over the 1974 edition of the original rules.

At $12 print $7 print people tell they think it is a good deal.

Quote from: Zeea;721115Are there any games that mix old-school simplicity, mid-school setting fluff (AD&D 2e/VtM era), and new-school mechanics that weren't eyeballed?

Shadows of Esteren is new, setting heavy and system light (relatively) though I'm waiting for my dead tree books to arrive to make a proper assessment.

Fantasy Craft has new school character generation and mechanics but has little in the was of metagamey mechanics, puts more stock in gm judgment than many new school games, and has old school love of random tables (including random treasure instead of parcels or wealth by level or such.)

There is no default setting, part of the emphasis being modular rules that let you craft your own settings. But the first print supplement, the Adventure Companion, has 3 pretty cool sample settings.

Ah misread your post about not wanting logistics and wanting more story as you wanting logistics, which Torchbearer goes in for heavily. So nix that.

Hard to think up examples as much new school rule-sets are pretty divorced from setting unless the setting is built into the rules, which Burning Wheel does a lot of. But then Burning Wheel is a game with excellent well-thought out design that really does what it sets out to do but leads to things like long discussions about whether something gives a penalty or raises the DC which means the same thing in terms of "can I succeed" but has different implications in terms of character advancement and ow ow my poor brain.

Talislanta fits the bill. Old-school feel, rich mid-school setting, streamlined modern system (d20 variant) that isn't all meta-gamey.

And I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that D&D Next is shaping up to hit the mark as well.

Quote from: Zeea;721115Are there any games that mix old-school simplicity, mid-school setting fluff (AD&D 2e/VtM era), and new-school mechanics that weren't eyeballed?

Getting a system with the type of fluff level is the tricky part.  The only thing that really comes close would be Talislanta and especially the third and later editions.  It's free to check out via http://talislanta.com/.

If you're willing to forgo fluff then I'd recommend things like Barbarians of Lemuria (which is light on fluff) or Precis Intermedia's Genre Diversion 3E.  Both systems have simple yet effective mechanics that "just work."  They might be not new school enough for you, though.