This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.
The message boards have been upgraded. Please log in to your existing account by clicking here. It will ask twice, so that it can properly update your password and login information. If it has trouble recognizing your password, click the 'Forgot your password?' link to reset it with a new password sent to your email address on file.

Author Topic: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG  (Read 3280 times)

Brad

  • No me gusta
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2465
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2020, 11:15:50 am »
I believe he’s speaking of right after Obi-Wan dies and Luke just starts opening up on the Stormtroopers as the Falcon is prepping for lift-off. It literally takes Obi-Wan’s ghost yelling “Run Luke, Run!” to snap him out of it.

It’s also not quite as extreme as made out to be and spread over what would probably be a couple rounds actually. He may have spent some CP or a Force Point on pegging the door panel (high TN for a small target), but otherwise he only hit 2-3 troopers over the course a couple combat rounds.

Here’s the scene in question;



I like my analysis better...but MAYBE 10 seconds total, so two rounds, and if we're gonna be technical about it a couple dodges in there as well. So either way, he's spending a Force point.

S'mon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11552
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2020, 12:42:33 pm »
He stands in the bay, shoots what, four or five of them?

This doesn't ring a bell.
I believe he’s speaking of right after Obi-Wan dies and Luke just starts opening up on the Stormtroopers as the Falcon is prepping for lift-off. It literally takes Obi-Wan’s ghost yelling “Run Luke, Run!” to snap him out of it.

It’s also not quite as extreme as made out to be and spread over what would probably be a couple rounds actually. He may have spent some CP or a Force Point on pegging the door panel (high TN for a small target), but otherwise he only hit 2-3 troopers over the course a couple combat rounds.

Here’s the scene in question;



Thanks!

Looks like 2-3 rounds of shooting; my impression is Luke hits two and Han one. Doesn't look like it would need 12d6 in Blaster, especially with WEG's Stormtrooper stats. :)
My 5e and Mini Six Primeval Thule games blog:
https://simonsprimevalthule.blogspot.com
My Forgotten Realms 4e & 5e games blog: https://frloudwater.blogspot.com

Chris24601

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • C
  • Posts: 1496
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2020, 02:27:13 pm »
Thanks!

Looks like 2-3 rounds of shooting; my impression is Luke hits two and Han one. Doesn't look like it would need 12d6 in Blaster, especially with WEG's Stormtrooper stats. :)
Like I said, maybe some CP to guarantee a hit on the control panel... maybe a Force Point if you counted it as two rounds rather than three since Luke pops two AND the control panel (probably TN 20-25 from distance and size so he’d need slightly above average on his full 6D to nail it).

Based on medium range I’d guess the troopers and Han/Luke had a base TN 15 to hit each other so Han and Luke pinging one per round even with 6D in Blasters (and Han at that point was probably more like 8D+ at that point) is pretty easy while the Stormtroopers would need to roll really well on their 3D (4D-1D Armor penalty) to hit back even without Han or Luke dodging.

So, basically ANH Han/Luke/Leia in a couple of areas (the things with a 3-4D attribute that you put two skill dice into) is about the level of competence WEG Star Wars presumes out of starting PCs.

About the only house rule I’d use to emulate the films is to split CP for extra dice and CP for XP into two separate piles (and maybe make the extra dice pile more or less rechargeable); just because every time I ever actually played getting PCs to spend CP on anything other than a do-or-die soak roll was rare as hen’s teeth and Han/Luke/Leia were probably popping CP like candy at various points where a PC would be banking them to upgrade their skill dice.

S'mon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11552
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2020, 03:51:23 pm »
So, basically ANH Han/Luke/Leia in a couple of areas (the things with a 3-4D attribute that you put two skill dice into) is about the level of competence WEG Star Wars presumes out of starting PCs.

I agree, with my proviso that IME Force Point use can raise starting PCs above OT-Hero levels, to stuff more like what's seen in the modern films.
My 5e and Mini Six Primeval Thule games blog:
https://simonsprimevalthule.blogspot.com
My Forgotten Realms 4e & 5e games blog: https://frloudwater.blogspot.com

Valatar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • V
  • Posts: 68
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2020, 04:53:06 pm »
I have no beef with a sorcerer with a laser sword being flatly superior to Bob on the street.  They have space magic and laser swords, duh.  It gets more prickly when in a game if they're outclassing the other PCs to a big degree, however, and I think Fantasy Flight did an excellent job with it.  The Force is strong, the Jedi talents are good, and lightsabers are absolutely horrifyingly lethal, with easy crits and basically ignoring armor and toughness to do direct health damage.  But a non-Jedi with the same XP to spend will have bought more skill ranks and equivalently good talents, and other weapons are also extremely deadly with a high skill and some mods attached.  It's not hard to wind up with a blaster that's essentially the one from Rogue One with the backpack power supply and proceed to mow down anything in sight.  The fact that FFG's system makes you buy everything with XP is an inherent balance to the system, 'cause the points spent on force powers have to come from somewhere else.

Slipshot762

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • S
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #80 on: October 31, 2020, 08:05:07 am »
am i the only one who ignores the WEG "rate of fire" rules for most hand held blasters?

Chris24601

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • C
  • Posts: 1496
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #81 on: October 31, 2020, 08:16:27 am »
am i the only one who ignores the WEG "rate of fire" rules for most hand held blasters?
Allow me to answer that with “blasters have rate of fire rules?” ???

Bren

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7576
    • View Profile
    • http://honorandintrigue.blogspot.com/
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #82 on: November 01, 2020, 01:53:11 am »
am i the only one who ignores the WEG "rate of fire" rules for most hand held blasters?
Sort of.

I see a ROF listed in the description of various blasters in my 2R&E rules. I started with 2E and apparently I never paid attention to the addition of a ROF line in the Revised and Expanded edition.

The 2E rules don't include a ROF for most blasters, for example see most of the entries in the Equipment section starting on p 154 of the 2E rules (where it is called "Fire Rate"). And there is no ROF column in the price lists. Nor does it appear in the 2R&E Gamemaster Screen.

Here's the really important thing to look at. A limit of only 1 shot per round for a blaster is in conflict with at least one of the the examples of play in the rules (see the example on pp 78-79 of the 2R&E rules). Thannik shoots twice in the same round (and he dodges in between the two shots).

I conclude that the ROF listed is telling you the rate of fire per action.
Currently running: Boot Hill 2E      Currently playing:_D&D 5E and Call of Cthulhu
My Blog: For Honor...and Intrigue
I now have a gold medal from Ravenswing and Gronan now owes me 9 beers and I owe him 2 beers.
And this just in, jeff37923 has jumped on the beer wagon. He now owes me 1 beer.

Slipshot762

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • S
  • Posts: 235
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2020, 09:34:55 am »
yeah the thing that nudged me toward ignoring it was the fact that Han gets off more than one shot at Vader on cloud city before being disarmed, not possible with the rof limitation intact or w/o some type of burst fire or multi-shot as a single attack rule.

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4701
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #84 on: November 04, 2020, 05:11:58 pm »
... the FFG system models that scene pretty easy. Just sayin.

In FFG - that would have been two rounds tops. The group of Troopers are just minions in a 5-man group. Luke opens up and blasts, gets enough successes and kills three of them. They return fire with 2-dice (since half their squad got killed) and miss. Han fires cover, gives Luke a booster for the help, and then bails up the ramp. MAYBE he spent a Force Point? Depends on his dice-pool. But he might have been able to pull it off. I'd have to look at basic Stormtrooper stats.

Round 2 - Luke shoots the door and runs. /shrug
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 05:17:29 pm by tenbones »

HappyDaze

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • H
  • Posts: 3052
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #85 on: November 04, 2020, 05:52:01 pm »
... the FFG system models that scene pretty easy. Just sayin.

In FFG - that would have been two rounds tops. The group of Troopers are just minions in a 5-man group. Luke opens up and blasts, gets enough successes and kills three of them. They return fire with 2-dice (since half their squad got killed) and miss. Han fires cover, gives Luke a booster for the help, and then bails up the ramp. MAYBE he spent a Force Point? Depends on his dice-pool. But he might have been able to pull it off. I'd have to look at basic Stormtrooper stats.

Round 2 - Luke shoots the door and runs. /shrug
Killing 3 stormtroopers with a blaster rifle (or carbine) requires 21 damage, or less with Triumphs. That would require Luke to roll 12 uncancelled successes, -5 successes per Triumph. I suppose it might be possible for him to get 2 uncancelled successes and 2 Triumphs, but that's a pretty lucky roll for a beginner.

Snark Knight

  • in Sour Armour
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #86 on: November 04, 2020, 07:45:14 pm »
D6 for Clone Wars period, FFG for anything with a narrower focus.

zarion

  • Newbie
  • *
  • z
  • Posts: 7
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #87 on: November 04, 2020, 07:46:17 pm »
D6, FFGs goofy dice and D&D level of complexity is a real turn off.

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4701
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #88 on: November 05, 2020, 10:04:06 am »
... the FFG system models that scene pretty easy. Just sayin.

In FFG - that would have been two rounds tops. The group of Troopers are just minions in a 5-man group. Luke opens up and blasts, gets enough successes and kills three of them. They return fire with 2-dice (since half their squad got killed) and miss. Han fires cover, gives Luke a booster for the help, and then bails up the ramp. MAYBE he spent a Force Point? Depends on his dice-pool. But he might have been able to pull it off. I'd have to look at basic Stormtrooper stats.

Round 2 - Luke shoots the door and runs. /shrug
Killing 3 stormtroopers with a blaster rifle (or carbine) requires 21 damage, or less with Triumphs. That would require Luke to roll 12 uncancelled successes, -5 successes per Triumph. I suppose it might be possible for him to get 2 uncancelled successes and 2 Triumphs, but that's a pretty lucky roll for a beginner.

Yeah. But I've seen it happen more than once. I'm not disagreeing it's a freaky roll, but it's happened in my games. It's one of the things I actually like about the system - it fits the improbability that the movies actually show.

To the degree it mirrors scenes from a movie, which is a fun exercise but I don't think it's necessarily indicative of anything other than showing what a system can do (like my 300 thread with Savage Worlds) - you could also say that Han gave Luke a booster dice by shouting a warning! The Luke player clearly could/did spend a Force point etc. It's not like rolling 3 natural 20's levels of crazy, it certainly could have been just a very very good roll.

I mean a farmboy unloading with a blaster vs. Stormtroopers less than two-generations out from the Clone Wars (I've *never* liked the idea that Stormtroopers are bumbling idiots - and FFG's Star Wars doesn't treat them like that, thankfully) seems a little lop-sided. The system allows it for dramatic action and makes it work.

tenbones

  • Poobah of the D.O.N.G.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4701
    • View Profile
Re: D6 Star Wars vs. FFG
« Reply #89 on: November 05, 2020, 10:11:09 am »
D6, FFGs goofy dice and D&D level of complexity is a real turn off.

I do not like complexity of SYSTEM. I do like complexity in outcomes in terms of what you can leverage from the system with minimal mechanical leaps. Oddly, despite others offering this sentiment (which I don't deny - it's a weird thing that some people find FFG Star Wars complex)... I find nothing particularly complex about FFG. Goofy dice? Sure. But the system is ridiculously easy to use, and contrary to what a lot of people say - you don't have to be meta with it at all. But I've defended it pretty extensively on this site in other threads.

It's less complex than D&D 3e. I'd say it's at worst as complex as D6. They just have different methods of abstraction. D6 is definitely more granular.