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Any Strong Opinions on Champions?

Started by Yevla, July 29, 2011, 06:02:29 PM

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jgants

#45
August 02, 2011, 02:00:19 PM
Put me down for a vote of "don't like it, too complicated".

When it comes to supers, I just don't like point buy.  I don't like Champions, don't like GURPS, don't like M&M.

For me, supers is all about heroes of wide range of (often random) abilities and not a cut and dry point total affair where I feel like I need a research assistant and an accountant just to do char gen.  I'll stick with Marvel Super Heroes or Heroes Unlimited.
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Narf the Mouse

#46
August 02, 2011, 04:03:33 PM Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 04:11:38 PM by Narf the Mouse
Quote from: jgants;471398Put me down for a vote of "don't like it, too complicated".

When it comes to supers, I just don't like point buy.  I don't like Champions, don't like GURPS, don't like M&M.

For me, supers is all about heroes of wide range of (often random) abilities and not a cut and dry point total affair where I feel like I need a research assistant and an accountant just to do char gen.  I'll stick with Marvel Super Heroes or Heroes Unlimited.
Fair enough. If it's not fun for you, it's not fun for you. :)

(Although you could always ask the GM to make your character, but that's a fish of a different discussion entirely)

Stealth Edit: *Backs away from Novastar* !
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

Novastar

#47
August 02, 2011, 04:17:51 PM
Quote from: Narf the Mouse;471433Stealth Edit: *Backs away from Novastar* !
Excellent.

All is proceeding...as I have foreseen!

:p

One other gripe I'll include: Point-buy systems seem to forment "comic clone" characters, worse than Image did is the 90's.

"I'm like Wolverine, but Mexican!"

"He's like the Vision, but even more mechanical!"

"He's like Batman, but..."
Quote from: dragoner;776244Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn\'t what I play rpg\'s for.

Narf the Mouse

#48
August 02, 2011, 04:28:56 PM Last Edit: August 02, 2011, 04:31:44 PM by Narf the Mouse
Quote from: Novastar;471442Excellent.

All is proceeding...as I have foreseen!

:p

One other gripe I'll include: Point-buy systems seem to forment "comic clone" characters, worse than Image did is the 90's.

"I'm like Wolverine, but Mexican!"

"He's like the Vision, but even more mechanical!"

"He's like Batman, but..."
Well, that's good.

The main upside and downside of point-buy systems is the players can and will build anything they imagine. :p

OTOH, if you've got a martial-artist crime-fighter who uses gadgets, Batman is assumed to be in your character's family tree - Even if the theoretical player has never heard of Batman. Or, in other words, it's difficult to create anything without bumping into some sort of predecessor - So there should be some slack here.

Stealth edit: And really, the only place to get gadgets is either to be rich or an inventor, in which case your character is either an "obvious" rip-off of Batman or Batman and Iron Man. So, yeah.
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

RPGPundit

#49
August 03, 2011, 01:31:45 AM
I've always hated Champions.  Ridiculously mechanical system, everything supers RPGs shouldn't be, and it had far too much influence in that genre of RPGs for far too long.

RPGPundit
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Narf the Mouse

#50
August 03, 2011, 02:02:44 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;471559I've always hated Champions.  Ridiculously mechanical system, everything supers RPGs shouldn't be, and it had far too much influence in that genre of RPGs for far too long.

RPGPundit
The best rebuttal, I think, it to simply repeat this:

QuoteThrowing Badger: Ranged Killing Attack 1d6, Constant (+1/2); (22 Active Points), Obvious Accessible Focus (It's a badger; -1), Range based on STR (-1/4). Total Cost: 10 points.

Yes, one of the example powers is a Throwing Badger. Bask in the awesome. *Basks*

How it works? You throw it, it attacks as long as you pay attention to it, and it's a badger. Horrible complicated, I know, but that's the Hero System for you.
The main problem with government is the difficulty of pressing charges against its directors.

Given a choice of two out of three M&Ms, the human brain subconsciously tries to justify the two M&Ms chosen as being superior to the M&M not chosen.

Novastar

#51
August 03, 2011, 04:33:35 AM
It's not uncommon to have characters that hit close to an archetype, but some of the clones I've seen are really too close (worse than Shazam and Superman!).

I mean, Ruce Bayne was just too close...
Quote from: dragoner;776244Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn\'t what I play rpg\'s for.

pawsplay

#52
August 03, 2011, 04:39:14 AM
Quote from: RPGPundit;471559I've always hated Champions.  Ridiculously mechanical system, everything supers RPGs shouldn't be, and it had far too much influence in that genre of RPGs for far too long.

RPGPundit

The reason I first picked it up was opening up the Champions 4e book and finding the page for Energy Blast. Compared to DC Heroes or FASERIP or whatever, "5 points per d6 of damage" seemed like a divine revelation in terms of system elegance. Now, the reality is never as sweet as the fantasy, but nonetheless, Champions is essentially a very straightforward system for running combat and benchmarking important non-combat abilities.

danbuter

#53
August 03, 2011, 10:23:21 AM
Half the fun of supers games is getting to be Batman or Wolverine. DC and Marvel RPG's are based on it. Not sure why people hate this idea.
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Novastar

#54
August 03, 2011, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: danbuter;471612Half the fun of supers games is getting to be Batman or Wolverine. DC and Marvel RPG's are based on it. Not sure why people hate this idea.
Cause invariably, it causes a bitchfest at the table.

"Wolverine can't do that! His healing factor isn't regeneration!"
"Batman would never let a villain fall to his death! It's against his moral code!" <- said before Batman Begins came out, where Batman does exactly that

etc, etc, etc

It's also a case where a lot of established characters can have up to 70 years of backstory (Superman), and you're almost always guaranteed to have one fanboy out of the bunch for each superhero (Green Lantern and X-men, yo).

New characters, even a whole new setting, removes a lot of pedantic arguments at the table.
Quote from: dragoner;776244Mechanical character builds remind me of something like picking the shoe in monopoly, it isn\'t what I play rpg\'s for.

The Butcher

#55
August 03, 2011, 01:48:08 PM
Quote from: Novastar;471667
Quote from: danbuter;471612Half the fun of supers games is getting to be Batman or Wolverine. DC and Marvel RPG's are based on it. Not sure why people hate this idea.

Cause invariably, it causes a bitchfest at the table.

"Wolverine can't do that! His healing factor isn't regeneration!"
"Batman would never let a villain fall to his death! It's against his moral code!" <- said before Batman Begins came out, where Batman does exactly that

Agreed with both. Which is why I usually steer clear of established universes, or establish my campaigns as What Ifs/Elseworlds right off the bat. So I'd rephrase:

Half (maybe even most) of the fun of supers games is getting to be Batman or Wolverine minus the serial numbers and the baggage.
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