Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."

This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.

A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.

While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.

Yeah, and I can't believe Liberace was gay. I mean, women loved him! I didn't see that one coming.

Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM
This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.

A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.

While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.

Wtf does this have to do with legality? I suppose you're an Al Capone apologist?

Quote from: Brad on February 25, 2024, 08:47:27 PM
Wtf does this have to do with legality? I suppose you're an Al Capone apologist?

Well, he did prevent the gross adulteration of milk in Chicago and the Midwest, and forced dates onto milk for freshness, which lead to saving the lives of countless of children during the Prohibition era, especially since it was a good business to hide used up corn mash, and young lives thereafter...

Wait, what are we talking about again?   

Oh yeah, something something Harriet Tubman and the Underground Railroad also invented D&D, and Abraham Lincoln was a Vampire Hunter and the first LARPer...  No, wait, that's probably wrong. It needs more diversity.  Little people were the first Warhammer miniatures? Am I doing this right? 

Quote from: Opaopajr on February 25, 2024, 10:09:29 PMLittle people were the first Warhammer miniatures? Am I doing this right? 

What are you, a Nazi?

They're People Of Little.

Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."

This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.

A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.

While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.

A small collection of urban degenerates were blatant enough to get footnotes in the history books, and somehow that's evidence that it was normal or expected?  The jhkim AIbot strikes again!  And you can't even see that you are doing exactly what WotC is doing now... assuming that your little cultural backwater (i.e. Seattle for WotC) is representative of how everyone else thinks and lives...

Quote from: Eirikrautha on February 26, 2024, 05:57:58 PM

Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."

This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.

A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.

While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.

A small collection of urban degenerates were blatant enough to get footnotes in the history books, and somehow that's evidence that it was normal or expected?  The jhkim AIbot strikes again!  And you can't even see that you are doing exactly what WotC is doing now... assuming that your little cultural backwater (i.e. Seattle for WotC) is representative of how everyone else thinks and lives...

How the hell do you read that? I've made no claims that being lesbian was the expected norm. Most Americans in the 1920s are heterosexual, just as most Americans in the 2020s are heterosexual.

Regardless of whether you call them "degenerates" or not, though, gays and lesbians existed in the 1920s and were roughly as common as in the 1970s and in  the 2020s. They were probably around 2% of the population - not enough to be expected, but large enough that there were well-reported gay subculture scenes in large urban centers like New York and Berlin with thousands of people participating in events. There are plenty of reports at the time of this, including crusading reformers opposed to gay culture of the time.

The attitudes and likely population of gay and lesbian people varies depending on the location and era, but they've always been around. Gay behavior was the norm in ancient Greece and well-known in ancient Rome. There have been periods of greater social restriction when gay and lesbian behavior had to be hidden more, but it's always been there.

Quote from: jhkim on February 26, 2024, 08:18:25 PM

Quote from: Eirikrautha on February 26, 2024, 05:57:58 PM

Quote from: jhkim on February 25, 2024, 03:12:38 AM

Quote from: Grognard GM on February 25, 2024, 02:26:15 AM
"Here's someone that was given some slack because she was a novelty crossdressing act, and most people thought it was part of the bit. Thus filling period settings with outspoken Lesbians is fine."

This is the first I heard of the "outspoken" qualifier.

A 1920s lesbian is going to be different than a 2020s lesbian. The times were different. But in general, the 1920s were notoriously libertine in a lot of respects. There were bathtubs of illegal gin, and other blatant lawbreaking. There were wild parties with drugs and liquor flowing. And among the bohemian scene there were plenty of gay and lesbian people living openly within their insulated community. So, no, she isn't going to be talking in court about her wife, but yes, she will go out to a lesbian bar with her partner and be open in that scene.

While the top-billed cross-dressers like Julian Eltinge did try to have a more mainstream profile, most cross-dressing performers were roughly as open a secret as Liberace or Boy George being gay in the 1970s.

A small collection of urban degenerates were blatant enough to get footnotes in the history books, and somehow that's evidence that it was normal or expected?  The jhkim AIbot strikes again!  And you can't even see that you are doing exactly what WotC is doing now... assuming that your little cultural backwater (i.e. Seattle for WotC) is representative of how everyone else thinks and lives...

How the hell do you read that? I've made no claims that being lesbian was the expected norm. Most Americans in the 1920s are heterosexual, just as most Americans in the 2020s are heterosexual.

Regardless of whether you call them "degenerates" or not, though, gays and lesbians existed in the 1920s and were roughly as common as in the 1970s and in  the 2020s. They were probably around 2% of the population - not enough to be expected, but large enough that there were well-reported gay subculture scenes in large urban centers like New York and Berlin with thousands of people participating in events. There are plenty of reports at the time of this, including crusading reformers opposed to gay culture of the time.

The attitudes and likely population of gay and lesbian people varies depending on the location and era, but they've always been around. Gay behavior was the norm in ancient Greece and well-known in ancient Rome. There have been periods of greater social restriction when gay and lesbian behavior had to be hidden more, but it's always been there.

Thousands of people gathering, in nations of tens and hundreds of millions.  Wow.  You're right, the twenties were so awash in gay to the point that no RPG setting could be complete without them.  Or not.

The fact that you associate Greeks and Romans with "gay behaviors" shows either how historically illiterate you are, or how you're just being your disingenuous self.  Neither the Greeks or Romans would even recognize the modern concept of "gay."  Sure, pervs of every time period have molested little boys (sometimes even with societal approval), but we're not into normalizing that here...

This is getting off topic, but it is true that there were periods of time that became less morally strict, in all kinds of civilizations and cultures. And just as quickly, those same cultures would shift and become more conservative again.

The 1830s for example were more libertine than the 1880s.

In the US and Europe, the 1920s had become slightly more libertine than the pre-WWI period, only to become more conservative again around when the Great Depression struck.
But in almost all cases, the liberalization was limited to certain areas (mostly large cities: New York, Paris, Berlin, etc) and to certain social classes (the bohemian middle class, and the idle upper classes).  That's still true to this day, but the rise in prosperity and mass communication means that the libertine message has hit a much bigger proportion of society. Again, though, there's no reason to think that there's not going to be an end to all of that at some point.

Honestly the "Thank you" vid was fairly inoffensive.

Thanking the customers because without them the product goes nowhere. As Disney is finding out.

Gay behavior was the norm in Ancient Greece.

No

Hey, don't beat me to it, yosemitemike!

As far as them slamming the original game - did you expect otherwise? This is 2024 and people have gone full retard. If you love anything from the 20th century, you're the problem.

Greetings!

I love Metatron! Of course, in his video, he is absolutely right concerning homosexuals in Ancient Greece. Being homosexual was not especially popular, and has never been really celebrated. Most societies, everywhere, have viewed homosexuality as unnatural and a perversion.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK