Quote from: yojimbouk;815792What the heck is GOML?

Get Off My Lawn because "Lamentations of an Old Fart" took too long to type.

Quote from: Nexus;815576It feels like we're, a a hobby, becoming way to tied to published material and "professional" game designers in place of creativity and improvisation.

The future of humanity won't survive if it can't copy/paste from the web any answers it needs.

Quote from: Nexus;815576This was from the Exalted questions thread but its not specfically a problem relating to Exalted but gaming in general. It feels like we're, a a hobby, becoming way to tied to published material and "professional" game designers in place of creativity and improvisation.



Do you really need to ask if this is possible or the permission of specific rules to try it? It seems counter intuitive to the idea of role playing games. Of course you can do that. and a gm worth their salt should be able to moderate what happens.

i think thats quite a lead of logic going from i want some rules for this to i wont make rules for things if needed

sure you can make things up as you go but its much better when its already an existing rule

Quote from: tuypo1;816999i think thats quite a lead of logic going from i want some rules for this to i wont make rules for things if needed

sure you can make things up as you go but its much better when its already an existing rule

Not from the way its phrased the vast majority of times. It asking "Can I do X. There are no rules for it." Not "how would I do X in this game." That might seem like a pedantic quibble but lends an entirely different feel to the discussions, like they're asking permission or if there is no official published rule for an action you cannot perform it. Often there's an attached anecdote that confirms that is indeed the purpose of the question. "There are no rules for setting a hay bale on fire as a distraction so the GM didn't like me do it."

 And, I guess this is where my elitism shows it does seem a bit sad to need official rules for every little thing. Ofter these aren't complex or strange things and the games already have some basic resolution mechanics (simple test against an attribute if nothing else) so making a call isn't that onerous but there's such an obsessive worry over getting it "right"

I can fully understand wanting, for instance, more compliated rules for actions and events that are going to be major parts of your game if they're not covered (like there's been or going to be a lot of car chases in the game but vehicle combat rules are thin and extremely simple) but it feels like no one wants to make judgement calls or work out things from the system but would rather deny one of the main things I like about rpgs until they can get some kind of official answer.

Quote from: tuypo1;816999sure you can make things up as you go but its much better when its already an existing rule

How so?  If that were true, then computer "RPGs" would be definitively superior to tabletop, since they only allow you to do things for which there's already an existing rule.

Repeating/clarifying myself, I like games like Fate where improving is encouraged and has a mechanical hook so the GM doesn't accidentally make up a rule that derails the game.

'I'm going to trick the enemy into doing X by launching a flaming writing desk at them!'
"Er, ok, roll (bla) skill..."
~Wait, I'm going to help by adding sparklers!~
"Ha ha, ok, ~you~ roll Craft..."
~Ok, I add 2 to 'their' result.~
'And I roll (bla)'
"Ok! The sparkling, flaming writing desk sails through the air and WHOMPH into the Cobra minions, they run screaming."
(Minion strength reduced by 4, or whatever variant of Fate is being used)

Quote from: tuypo1;816999i think thats quite a lead of logic going from i want some rules for this to i wont make rules for things if needed

sure you can make things up as you go but its much better when its already an existing rule

Better in what way?

All having a rule for lighting a hay bale on fire to distract the guards does is add more and more clutterd rules for things that should be as simple as the DM thinking it through and/or making a wisdom check for example.

What good does having a rule for jumping on a table serve?

Quote from: Will;817024"Ok! The sparkling, flaming writing desk sails through the air and WHOMPH into the Cobra minions, they run screaming."
(Minion strength reduced by 4, or whatever variant of Fate is being used)

I remember that episode! Wasnt that followed up by the episode where Cobra Commander summons the Egyptian god Set?

What exactly is the rule for distracting your friend whos been turned into an orca monster and is rampaging in the ocean? For that matter, what is the rule for turning your friend into a giant orca monster?

One thing I really like about Torg, which is a late 90s game with lots of rules, is that it also has a rather open-ended 'dramatic results.'

So that if you want to do just about anything to bring disadvantage to the enemies that isn't specifically damage, there was a table of results depending on how well you roll. This encompassed everything from Staredown, glibly confusing the enemies, or anything. And you could get really credible, big results (max result was something like 'choose what happens,' so you could have a bunch of enemies run off a cliff, or a bunch of dragons show up to help you, or whatever)

So despite being a system with lots of rules for stuff, a lot of those rules were rather open frameworks, and it could handle a wide variety of crazy shit.

Quote from: Will;817033One thing I really like about Torg, which is a late 90s game with lots of rules, is that it also has a rather open-ended 'dramatic results.'

Torgs strength was, and still is, its flexibility combined with its "anything CAN happen" setting.

The Vampire Hunter wants to leap out of the burning Nile Empire bomber plane without a parachute and land on the back of a T-Rex? Can do. Might not succeed. But you sure as heck can try.

Frankly, it remains the game that, to me, most validates social characters, between the resolution and the card system that at least 1/4 of the time says 'do something social to get a card.'

I rate it more highly in that regard than Fate... though on the whole I find Fate 'better' (lighter rule load, less intimidating to run, more flexibility in other ways, better overall balance)

Quote from: nDervish;817009How so?  If that were true, then computer "RPGs" would be definitively superior to tabletop, since they only allow you to do things for which there's already an existing rule.

Wrong. Why? Because some people want both more guidelines AND freedom.

However, crpgs are "definitely superior" in terms of getting big profits from a mass market.

Quote from: Omega;817029Better in what way?

All having a rule for lighting a hay bale on fire to distract the guards does is add more and more clutterd rules for things that should be as simple as the DM thinking it through and/or making a wisdom check for example.

What good does having a rule for jumping on a table serve?

"Jumping on a table" might, in its arbitrary particularity,  be a temptation to absurdly fallacious argument. Let's stick, please, with the concept of having something to cover whatever you (or I, or whoever is actually involved) consider worth covering. After all, a whole lot of folks DO buy rules sets rather than "reinvent the wheel" from scratch.

Sticking with that, I'll bet you can answer your own question from personal experience - even if it's limited to experience with Omega's House Rules Nobody Else Knows.

Quote from: Phillip;817092"Jumping on a table" might, in its arbitrary particularity,  be a temptation to absurdly fallacious argument. Let's stick, please, with the concept of having something to cover whatever you (or I, or whoever is actually involved) consider worth covering. After all, a whole lot of folks DO buy rules sets rather than "reinvent the wheel" from scratch.

Sticking with that, I'll bet you can answer your own question from personal experience - even if it's limited to experience with Omega's House Rules Nobody Else Knows.

Considering the number of threads elsewhere on "how high can I jump? The rules dont say?" The jumping on table example is unfortunately a valid example.

Quote from: Phillip;817089Wrong. Why? Because some people want both more guidelines AND freedom.

However, crpgs are "definitely superior" in terms of getting big profits from a mass market.

Thats because CRPGs arent actual RPGs in the standard sense and attract a different playerbase than RPGs. Thats why CRPGs never "killed off" RPGs as so many predicted way back and every year thereafter.