I'd had low expectations of ICONS, mainly because I had never ever seen any RPG do 'superheroes' right, but I was very pleasantly surprised.

I think, for myself, it has more to do with who I end up playing it with and their interpretation of the rules/setting.
Like, I sought out and joined a Deadlands group... having never played that game and did not really enjoy it as much as I expected. That probably had more to do with the GM and other Players.
I ended up not liking Shadowrun when they tried it also.
But that same group alternated weekly sessions with Earthdawn, using a different GM, and though I hadn't arrived with any interest in Earthdawn that ended up being the campaign that kept me coming back.

I'd hope any NWOD GM who wanted the Sabbat in their game would find a way to put it back in.

Quote from: RPGPundit;972547I'd had low expectations of ICONS, mainly because I had never ever seen any RPG do 'superheroes' right, but I was very pleasantly surprised.

I've not read Icons but I've heard it's very good. Superheroes are a tricky one... I liked FASERIP back in the day used a great little system. Mayfair's D.C. Megs system was ingenious (with the AP system)! But it could get well out of hand if you were not careful. I mean certain heroes could lift ridiculous amounts (planetary levels). The second edition they calmed it down alot.

Quote from: Simlasa;972557I think, for myself, it has more to do with who I end up playing it with and their interpretation of the rules/setting.
Like, I sought out and joined a Deadlands group... having never played that game and did not really enjoy it as much as I expected. That probably had more to do with the GM and other Players.
I ended up not liking Shadowrun when they tried it also.
But that same group alternated weekly sessions with Earthdawn, using a different GM, and though I hadn't arrived with any interest in Earthdawn that ended up being the campaign that kept me coming back.

I'd hope any NWOD GM who wanted the Sabbat in their game would find a way to put it back in.

I was the same with Deadlands as well. I thought it would be a pretty mundane affair, even though I was aware of the 'wyrd' in the setting. But when I read through the book I thought it was a lot better than I'd originally thought. And with the actual fear mechanics and thus leading to the creation of a 'Dead Land' made my imagination go into overdive. So, it was a blast when I finally ran it. Although, the players were great, in the way they did everything backwards. Which made it even better. Also, it lends itself very well to the Savage Worlds system (as one would expect). Which also helped our enjoyment of the game.

I remember reading through ED years ago... And thinking it was a really interesting setting. The magic was cool too. But I never really got too far down the rabbit hole, because I wasn't mad about the system. Shame the Savage worlds conversion is so shoddy (or so I hear).

I agree with you about the Sabbat in nWOD. I mean, it could be easily ported in there. They would make fine enemies to Belial's Brood. There was a bit more for me discounting the nWOD as well. They had got rid of clan Lasombra (who were my favorite clan). They also, tried to merge Requiem with all the other CoD settings. This felt very wrong for me as an original Vampire GM/player. To me, Vampire was a game about Vampires and the rest were just enemies that had to be dealt with now and again and played a small part in the overall world (Mage, Werewolf, etc.).

Granted, towards the end of the Masquerade Whitewolf were also trying to merge the settings - But at that stage, the metaplot had choked the game to bits. Of course, we just ignored it and did our own thing.

I'm interested in checking out the COD II but more as a generic horror game...

As far as Vampire goes now, I'm pretty happy with it. Or should I say our interpretation of it. We house ruled the broken system and trimmed the fat off the numerous splat books. And ditched the bloated metaplot. We only really play Sabbat as well... We are all stuck in our ways you could say.

Quote from: The Exploited.;972567I'm interested in checking out the COD II but more as a generic horror game...

I thought NWOD was supposedly much more of a generic horror setting than the original World of Darkness games... no?

Quote from: The Exploited.;972561Mayfair's D.C. Megs system was ingenious (with the AP system)! But it could get well out of hand if you were not careful. I mean certain heroes could lift ridiculous amounts (planetary levels). The second edition they calmed it down alot.

That had nothing to do with the rules, though; it is merely the difference between "pre-Crisis" and "post- Crisis" DC super hero power levels.

I still love the Mayfair game and break it out now and then.

Quote from: Simlasa;972574I thought NWOD was supposedly much more of a generic horror setting than the original World of Darkness games... no?

Your right... But apparently (from what I've read), COD II has a much better ruleset. I was never enamored with nWOD tbh.

Quote from: Dumarest;972578That had nothing to do with the rules, though; it is merely the difference between "pre-Crisis" and "post- Crisis" DC superhero power levels.

I still love the Mayfair game and break it out now and then.

I don't think so... Because with Mayfair's DC2 they adjusted some of the power levels. One example that stands out, is Superman, who now has a mere '25 APs' of strength as opposed to a whopping 50 in the first game (which in theory, could move a planet!). 25 is more in line with the comics (well the early 80's stuff). I've not read Superman stuff in decades.

I could be wrong, but that was my interpretation at the time. It's a great game none-the-less with a very slick set of mechanics. I actually, don't have the original Mayfair games anymore. I regretfully sold a load of my old RPGs my 20s (go me!).

That said, I did pick up Blood of Heroes a couple of years back. The Same system obviously! But the production values are krud. And it uses a generic campaign setting.... Which is also very meh, but I'd use it for my own stuff so that's cool with me.

Quote from: The Exploited.;972581I don't think so... Because with Mayfair's DC2 they adjusted some of the power levels. One example that stands out, is Superman, who now has a mere '25 APs' of strength as opposed to a whopping 50 in the first game (which in theory, could move a planet!). 25 is more in line with the comics (well the early 80's stuff). I've not read Superman stuff in decades.

What are you are referring to is the change from pre- to post- Crisis power levels! The "Crisis on Infinite Earths" series started right when the 1st edition came out. The 2nd edition stats reflected the resulting changes. The only real change to the system was the Gadget rules (much for the better) and adding the Advantages and Disadvantages, both of which were features of the Mayfair Batman RPG.

I was surprised how much the mechanics of the storygame HGMO impressed me. It leaves things very open for the players to decide but gives a structure that prevents it from being 'just make it all up' which some games I've seen come too close to (eg. Archipelago).

Quote from: JeremyR;972026TSR's original Buck Rogers. I always thought it was a half-assed cash in for the Dilles/Williams. And while I guess it is, but the original AD&D based one was pretty nice.

According to some TSR staff. Loraine's brother was an RPG enthusiast and he probably pushed for a Buck Rogers RPG. He co-wrote the second one. Loraine just pocketed the royalties. And she was bleeding TSR with her non-Game BR stuff like the artbook. Though it was a nice artbook by all accounts.

The first RPG is not half assed at all. Its a pretty solid endeavor. And the second one was more a problem of the designer being eager, but inexperienced.

5e D&D: This one started off on a rocky footing initially. But near the end seemed like was going to be at least... ok.

By the time it saw print was pleasantly surprised that they overall hadnt screwed it up and really had listened to feedback and advice.

Quote from: Dumarest;972585What are you are referring to is the change from pre- to post- Crisis power levels! The "Crisis on Infinite Earths" series started right when the 1st edition came out. The 2nd edition stats reflected the resulting changes. The only real change to the system was the Gadget rules (much for the better) and adding the Advantages and Disadvantages, both of which were features of the Mayfair Batman RPG.

Ah right... Sorry, I see what you're saying now. Yes, you are correct.

Quote from: Omega;9726365e D&D: This one started off on a rocky footing initially. But near the end seemed like was going to be at least... ok.

By the time it saw print was pleasantly surprised that they overall hadnt screwed it up and really had listened to feedback and advice.

I've not played too much D&D beyond AD&D and D&D basic, to be honest. But from what I've seen 5e seems to be a step in the right direction (unlike 4e).

I was expecting DCC to be too gimmicky to be good, but I was (obviously) blown away by how awesome it actually is.