Quote from: Brad on March 15, 2021, 09:23:18 PM
This thread has veered off RPGs quite a bit, so just throwing this out there to maybe get it back on track: what are the actual requirements for considering a game an RPG? I don't think referee-less games qualify, not these fat-acceptance sorts of things, but I also have run dungeons crawls for myself using the tables in the DMG and that was playing an RPG as much as anything else. Is this one of those "I'll know it when I see it" sorts of classifications, or can we give some definitive requirements?

Taking a stab at it, these ideas are not refined-

1. Playing a character, usually different from yourself, but possibly very similar to yourself.
2. Making decisions for that character as if you were that character in that situation.

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 15, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
It's MYFAROG for the Woke Vargs.

This is completely right. That's exactly what it is.

Myfarog presents a mythical setting not based on any actual history but on imaginary fantasies of the "primordial race history of the aryans" borrowed from the likes of Blavatsky, Steiner and the Thule Society. It presents a perfect utopia of a culture because it is "pure" (aryan) unsullied by the evil influences of lesser races. It mainly has you killing 'subhuman' enemies which are very VERY blatant analogies for blacks, middle-easterners and jews.

The only part of Coyote and Crow that remains to be seen is whether "white men" or blatant analogies for the same end up being the monsters you go kill (or whether the premise is even more sinister: they've simply been made extinct as the ultimate racist wish fulfilment).
In every other respect, its the same Racialist Fantasy as Myfarog. So is Swordsfall's game. All three were made by pathetic racial supremacists, just of different races.


Edit to Add: Bringing it back to the OP, Fat Self Care is another kind of 'utopia scenario' of wish fulfilment of course: of a morbidly obese person being able to think that nothing at all is their own responsibility.  That SOUNDS different from the other three, but at the most basic level it's not: that's why Myfarog and Coyote&Crow and Swordsfall's game are all three about: "its not our fault, it would all be nearly perfect if it wasn't for Jews/Palefaces/Whitey/Fat-Shamers!!"

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 17, 2021, 04:38:12 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 15, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
It's MYFAROG for the Woke Vargs.

This is completely right. That's exactly what it is.

Myfarog presents a mythical setting not based on any actual history but on imaginary fantasies of the "primordial race history of the aryans" borrowed from the likes of Blavatsky, Steiner and the Thule Society. It presents a perfect utopia of a culture because it is "pure" (aryan) unsullied by the evil influences of lesser races. It mainly has you killing 'subhuman' enemies which are very VERY blatant analogies for blacks, middle-easterners and jews.

The only part of Coyote and Crow that remains to be seen is whether "white men" or blatant analogies for the same end up being the monsters you go kill (or whether the premise is even more sinister: they've simply been made extinct as the ultimate racist wish fulfilment).
In every other respect, its the same Racialist Fantasy as Myfarog. So is Swordsfall's game. All three were made by pathetic racial supremacists, just of different races.

Pundit, have you even bothered to read anything about Coyote & Crow? At least Chris24601 was explicit that he hadn't read the Kickstarter, and instead was just spouting off based on what he imagined it was like.

In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 05:26:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 17, 2021, 04:38:12 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 15, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
It's MYFAROG for the Woke Vargs.

This is completely right. That's exactly what it is.

Myfarog presents a mythical setting not based on any actual history but on imaginary fantasies of the "primordial race history of the aryans" borrowed from the likes of Blavatsky, Steiner and the Thule Society. It presents a perfect utopia of a culture because it is "pure" (aryan) unsullied by the evil influences of lesser races. It mainly has you killing 'subhuman' enemies which are very VERY blatant analogies for blacks, middle-easterners and jews.

The only part of Coyote and Crow that remains to be seen is whether "white men" or blatant analogies for the same end up being the monsters you go kill (or whether the premise is even more sinister: they've simply been made extinct as the ultimate racist wish fulfilment).
In every other respect, its the same Racialist Fantasy as Myfarog. So is Swordsfall's game. All three were made by pathetic racial supremacists, just of different races.

Pundit, have you even bothered to read anything about Coyote & Crow? At least Chris24601 was explicit that he hadn't read the Kickstarter, and instead was just spouting off based on what he imagined it was like.

In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

For my part the setting seems fine, and indeed I would probably agree that comparatively there aren't many games with a Native American setting. I also personally think exploring what would happen in any setting if you removed a massive factor is interesting. 

There are also plenty of games which are very clear with which types of characters exist and which don't.  There aren't female spacemarines in Deathwatch for example.  Legend of the Five Rings more or less wrote the not-Europeans out of the game.

All fine. I wouldn't consider these games racist, sexist or whatever.

But as far as I can tell C&C is unique in that mechanically it appears that the game itself is explicitly, if not racist, then certinaly prejudicial.  This is to say that if you are of a particular race you will get preferential treatment in how the rules apply to you.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/connoralexander/coyote-and-crow/posts/3126772

Specifically

"When it comes to the actual game, we address this concept head on in a few ways. First, we have pages at the start of the book that directly speak to non-Native players and Native players. We discuss how each group should approach the game and some obvious no-no's for non-Natives. But throughout we call attention to specific things where there might be a chance for any non-Natives to misstep or for Natives to add value. A perfect example of this is the Ceremony Skill. This is a fully functioning Skill on its own and is useful as is to anyone playing. But we also call this out as a point where Native players can speak with their Story Guide and work to create Specialized versions for the Skill that allows for different effects and parameters based on that particular Native's culture and traditions. In this scenario, non-Natives don't need to take any special actions. Just play the game as it's written, and you're fine".

That is more or less equivilent to providing different (presumably better) effects in Pendragon to the Love Country Passion if you are actually British.

I mean shit, even Racial Holy War didn't have the balls to do this.

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 07:26:23 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 05:26:53 PM
In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

For my part the setting seems fine, and indeed I would probably agree that comparatively there aren't many games with a Native American setting. I also personally think exploring what would happen in any setting if you removed a massive factor is interesting.

There are also plenty of games which are very clear with which types of characters exist and which don't.  There aren't female spacemarines in Deathwatch for example.  Legend of the Five Rings more or less wrote the not-Europeans out of the game.

Sure. And just to add, there aren't male PCs in Macho Women With Guns. Also, there aren't humans in the Elfquest RPG.

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 07:26:23 PM
But as far as I can tell C&C is unique in that mechanically it appears that the game itself is explicitly, if not racist, then certinaly prejudicial.  This is to say that if you are of a particular race you will get preferential treatment in how the rules apply to you.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/connoralexander/coyote-and-crow/posts/3126772

QuoteA perfect example of this is the Ceremony Skill. This is a fully functioning Skill on its own and is useful as is to anyone playing. But we also call this out as a point where Native players can speak with their Story Guide and work to create Specialized versions for the Skill that allows for different effects and parameters based on that particular Native's culture and traditions. In this scenario, non-Natives don't need to take any special actions. Just play the game as it's written, and you're fine".

That is more or less equivilent to providing different (presumably better) effects in Pendragon to the Love Country Passion if you are actually British.

You're inserting in "preferential" and "presumably better" here -- but that's not said in the text you quote. As I read it, the point is that the authors have deliberately fictional tribes and beliefs here -- and they suggest that a native player can substitute in their own real-world beliefs if they want.

I think the equivalent in Pendragon would be -- The book suggests that if a player is a real-world pagan, then they could work out with the GM a different set of Passions to represent their pagan virtues rather than the generic Christian and pagan virtues in the game.

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 05:26:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 17, 2021, 04:38:12 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 15, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
It's MYFAROG for the Woke Vargs.

This is completely right. That's exactly what it is.

Myfarog presents a mythical setting not based on any actual history but on imaginary fantasies of the "primordial race history of the aryans" borrowed from the likes of Blavatsky, Steiner and the Thule Society. It presents a perfect utopia of a culture because it is "pure" (aryan) unsullied by the evil influences of lesser races. It mainly has you killing 'subhuman' enemies which are very VERY blatant analogies for blacks, middle-easterners and jews.

The only part of Coyote and Crow that remains to be seen is whether "white men" or blatant analogies for the same end up being the monsters you go kill (or whether the premise is even more sinister: they've simply been made extinct as the ultimate racist wish fulfilment).
In every other respect, its the same Racialist Fantasy as Myfarog. So is Swordsfall's game. All three were made by pathetic racial supremacists, just of different races.

Pundit, have you even bothered to read anything about Coyote & Crow? At least Chris24601 was explicit that he hadn't read the Kickstarter, and instead was just spouting off based on what he imagined it was like.

In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

It's like that except that Middle Earth is a make-believe place, while Coyote & Crow is supposed to be 20th Century alt-history earth where the native americans have developed into Superscience Indigenous Wakanda while the white people, if still alive at all, can't cross an ocean.
That's certainly wish-fulfillment, like I said.

It'd say its mostly just a derivative production and try not to read much past that till given reason to think otherwise. And so far seems not.

As said, it reads currently as bog standard for one of these "what if" sorts of settings where the "what if" happened to be culturally focused.

As noted in a much older thread there was a TV series once back in the 80s about a earth where the genders were switched and women were in charge. And its a recurring theme in comics and literature. What if Germany had won, what if Russia had won, what if etc.

The difference is prior to the current wave of antisocial injustice cultists these were usually not agenda platforms other than to maybe just toot ones horn about how great they think their homeland is. Or as a joke, ribbing their own country.

I'd lay good money on the odds being that all it was with C&R is someone saw Black Panther and thought "gosh we can profit off this if we reskin it to some other culture!". Business 101. If its popular, reskin it and sell it too!

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 08:39:15 PM

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 07:26:23 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 05:26:53 PM
In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

For my part the setting seems fine, and indeed I would probably agree that comparatively there aren't many games with a Native American setting. I also personally think exploring what would happen in any setting if you removed a massive factor is interesting.

There are also plenty of games which are very clear with which types of characters exist and which don't.  There aren't female spacemarines in Deathwatch for example.  Legend of the Five Rings more or less wrote the not-Europeans out of the game.

Sure. And just to add, there aren't male PCs in Macho Women With Guns. Also, there aren't humans in the Elfquest RPG.

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 07:26:23 PM
But as far as I can tell C&C is unique in that mechanically it appears that the game itself is explicitly, if not racist, then certinaly prejudicial.  This is to say that if you are of a particular race you will get preferential treatment in how the rules apply to you.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/connoralexander/coyote-and-crow/posts/3126772

QuoteA perfect example of this is the Ceremony Skill. This is a fully functioning Skill on its own and is useful as is to anyone playing. But we also call this out as a point where Native players can speak with their Story Guide and work to create Specialized versions for the Skill that allows for different effects and parameters based on that particular Native's culture and traditions. In this scenario, non-Natives don't need to take any special actions. Just play the game as it's written, and you're fine".

That is more or less equivilent to providing different (presumably better) effects in Pendragon to the Love Country Passion if you are actually British.

You're inserting in "preferential" and "presumably better" here -- but that's not said in the text you quote. As I read it, the point is that the authors have deliberately fictional tribes and beliefs here -- and they suggest that a native player can substitute in their own real-world beliefs if they want.

I think the equivalent in Pendragon would be -- The book suggests that if a player is a real-world pagan, then they could work out with the GM a different set of Passions to represent their pagan virtues rather than the generic Christian and pagan virtues in the game.

I agree it is not directly stated the differences would be preferential (which is why I said presumably better) so until the book comes out, we are all speculating.  But equally your reading that it just about the beliefs of a character is also not what is said.  The sentence is specifically about games rules; effects and parameters and follows a comparison with how a non-Native would use ceremony skill.

But really that's not the point I am making. The point is that the idea that the rules of the game require a specific identity in the real world (Native, Christian, Pagan whatever) to access a mechanic or background (or just GM time which is a valuable resource in itself) just seems completely off to me.  In this case it seems pushing towards racism.  But more broadly it also seems inimical to the spirit of what rpging is about. 

And to speak to your example in Pendragon: 

The book suggests that if a player is a real-world pagan, then they could work out with the GM a different set of Passions to represent their pagan virtues rather than the generic Christian and pagan virtues in the game.

This is fine.  What is not fine is if a GM is telling a player who was not a pagan but playing one in the game that they can't have the same Passions as their fellow PC because they are an atheist or a Mormon or whatever in real life.  And the rule book supports this.

Ironically, it's actually not that far from what the moral panic crowd of the 80s was worrying would happen if you played D&D i.e., you can't play a wizard in the game unless you practice dark magic in real life.

I think it's a fair point that ultimately this is speculation so we'll need to wait and see how the rules are presented but I am definitely raising an eyebrow at this stage.




 

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 07:26:23 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 05:26:53 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 17, 2021, 04:38:12 PM

Quote from: Spinachcat on March 15, 2021, 12:06:42 AM
It's MYFAROG for the Woke Vargs.

This is completely right. That's exactly what it is.

Myfarog presents a mythical setting not based on any actual history but on imaginary fantasies of the "primordial race history of the aryans" borrowed from the likes of Blavatsky, Steiner and the Thule Society. It presents a perfect utopia of a culture because it is "pure" (aryan) unsullied by the evil influences of lesser races. It mainly has you killing 'subhuman' enemies which are very VERY blatant analogies for blacks, middle-easterners and jews.

The only part of Coyote and Crow that remains to be seen is whether "white men" or blatant analogies for the same end up being the monsters you go kill (or whether the premise is even more sinister: they've simply been made extinct as the ultimate racist wish fulfilment).
In every other respect, its the same Racialist Fantasy as Myfarog. So is Swordsfall's game. All three were made by pathetic racial supremacists, just of different races.

Pundit, have you even bothered to read anything about Coyote & Crow? At least Chris24601 was explicit that he hadn't read the Kickstarter, and instead was just spouting off based on what he imagined it was like.

In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

For my part the setting seems fine, and indeed I would probably agree that comparatively there aren't many games with a Native American setting. I also personally think exploring what would happen in any setting if you removed a massive factor is interesting. 

There are also plenty of games which are very clear with which types of characters exist and which don't.  There aren't female spacemarines in Deathwatch for example.  Legend of the Five Rings more or less wrote the not-Europeans out of the game.

All fine. I wouldn't consider these games racist, sexist or whatever.

But as far as I can tell C&C is unique in that mechanically it appears that the game itself is explicitly, if not racist, then certinaly prejudicial.  This is to say that if you are of a particular race you will get preferential treatment in how the rules apply to you.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/connoralexander/coyote-and-crow/posts/3126772

Specifically

"When it comes to the actual game, we address this concept head on in a few ways. First, we have pages at the start of the book that directly speak to non-Native players and Native players. We discuss how each group should approach the game and some obvious no-no's for non-Natives. But throughout we call attention to specific things where there might be a chance for any non-Natives to misstep or for Natives to add value. A perfect example of this is the Ceremony Skill. This is a fully functioning Skill on its own and is useful as is to anyone playing. But we also call this out as a point where Native players can speak with their Story Guide and work to create Specialized versions for the Skill that allows for different effects and parameters based on that particular Native's culture and traditions. In this scenario, non-Natives don't need to take any special actions. Just play the game as it's written, and you're fine".

That is more or less equivilent to providing different (presumably better) effects in Pendragon to the Love Country Passion if you are actually British.

I mean shit, even Racial Holy War didn't have the balls to do this.

Greetings!

This terrible game sounds like more woke, anti-White racist bullshit. More SJW circle-jerking.

I hope they choke and burn.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on March 17, 2021, 10:43:56 PM
This terrible game sounds like more woke, anti-White racist bullshit. More SJW circle-jerking.

That would be because it is. As I could predict without even visiting the page itself because Wokists are incapable of producing anything but woke garbage.

The funniest part? I have an actual member of the Lakota in my gaming circles and they'd find this game ridiculously offensive... i.e. they're being portrayed as magic noble savages vs. the people they actually were.*

The woke are the most racist people around. They are literally incapable of seeing people, just intersections of race, sex, wealth, etc.

It's like they've been conditioned into a state of borderline personality disorder. You either must agree fully with every insane thing they spew or you are the enemy who must be silenced and destroyed.

* You know what sort of Native-themed rpg they would find appealing? One akin to a Robin Hood (i.e. a non-magic setting) only set in Eastern North America c. AD 1200 and presenting pre-Colonial tribal life realistically.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 18, 2021, 09:29:38 AM

Quote from: SHARK on March 17, 2021, 10:43:56 PM
This terrible game sounds like more woke, anti-White racist bullshit. More SJW circle-jerking.

The woke are the most racist people around. They are literally incapable of seeing people, just intersections of race, sex, wealth, etc.

The really crazy thing is that a lot of them openly admit this. How many white SJWs have you heard say variations "I am coming to terms with my own implicit/unconscious/institutional racism?"

The real issue is that they are trying to gaslight everyone else into agreeing that they are also racist.

Damn it accidental double post. How do you delete a post?

Quote from: RPGPundit on March 17, 2021, 08:44:44 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 05:26:53 PM
In Coyote & Crow, white people aren't monsters and haven't been made extinct. It's left unknown what is going on with them - the only established point is that they haven't contacted the Americas, which is the setting of the game. If individual GMs want to include white people in their game, it's up to them.

From reading both the C&C Kickstarter and Myfarog, I think your claim is totally baseless. White people simply aren't around in the setting  - that doesn't make it racist against white people. What you're doing is like people saying Middle Earth is racist for not having black people mixed into the Shire and Gondor.

It's like that except that Middle Earth is a make-believe place, while Coyote & Crow is supposed to be 20th Century alt-history earth where the native americans have developed into Superscience Indigenous Wakanda while the white people, if still alive at all, can't cross an ocean.
That's certainly wish-fulfillment, like I said.

I don't disagree that it's wish-fulfillment. A lot of fantasy is wish-fulfillment of one sort or another, just like Tolkien's Shire and Ents are his forms of wish-fulfillment, and Narnia with magic Aslan is Lewis' wish fulfillment.

What I disagree with is that it's anti-white racism. You claim is that since white people don't appear in the game, that therefore it is anti-white racism. I claim that is bullshit.

Quote from: Omega on March 17, 2021, 09:09:17 PM
I'd lay good money on the odds being that all it was with C&R is someone saw Black Panther and thought "gosh we can profit off this if we reskin it to some other culture!". Business 101. If its popular, reskin it and sell it too!

I'd agree that this is true - but that's also the basis of hordes of genre fiction and RPGs. The OSR is all about taking old-school D&D and reskinning it in different ways to make a profit. Pundit's "Lords of Olympus" game is explicitly about taking Amber Diceless and reskinning it to Greek gods. Coyote & Crow isn't an exact parallel to Wakanda - but sure, it shares some themes of an indigenous high-tech society based on a weird-science impact from outer space (vibranium vs awis).

Quote from: Visitor Q on March 17, 2021, 09:14:09 PM

Quote from: jhkim on March 17, 2021, 08:39:15 PM
As I read it, the point is that the authors have deliberately fictional tribes and beliefs here -- and they suggest that a native player can substitute in their own real-world beliefs if they want.

I think the equivalent in Pendragon would be -- The book suggests that if a player is a real-world pagan, then they could work out with the GM a different set of Passions to represent their pagan virtues rather than the generic Christian and pagan virtues in the game.

This is fine.  What is not fine is if a GM is telling a player who was not a pagan but playing one in the game that they can't have the same Passions as their fellow PC because they are an atheist or a Mormon or whatever in real life.  And the rule book supports this.

Ironically, it's actually not that far from what the moral panic crowd of the 80s was worrying would happen if you played D&D i.e., you can't play a wizard in the game unless you practice dark magic in real life.

And to complete the parallel, you're stoking outrage and moral panic about it. This is a two-sentence piece of advice in a game that won't have any effect on the vast majority of groups. It seems possible that even most Native American players wouldn't use this. If someone wants to role-play their own real-world religion in a game that doesn't include it, then honestly, that does feel different to me than a random non-believer asking the same thing.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 18, 2021, 09:29:38 AM
That would be because it is. As I could predict without even visiting the page itself because Wokists are incapable of producing anything but woke garbage.

The funniest part? I have an actual member of the Lakota in my gaming circles and they'd find this game ridiculously offensive... i.e. they're being portrayed as magic noble savages vs. the people they actually were.*

So not only can you judge the game by not reading anything about it, you also claim to speak for your Lakota player without speaking to them - and neither of you having read anything about the game?!?

This is *exactly* like the moral panic of the 1980s. I remember going to see The Last Temptation of Christ as a teenager with members of my church, and we walked past people who were picketing the theater with pamphlet like "We haven't seen this movie, but it sounds blasphemous to us so we're outraged."

I haven't seen anything in Coyote & Crow that suggests portraying Native Americans as magic noble savages. I'd debate you about that - except that I know it's not based on anything you've actually read, since you haven't read even the game preview.

Quote from: jhkim on March 18, 2021, 01:58:26 PMWhat I disagree with is that it's anti-white racism. You claim is that since white people don't appear in the game, that therefore it is anti-white racism. I claim that is bullshit.

I will actually agree with that. The core conceit is very much just a gonzo idea akin to 'Dracula in Space!', but I personally believe it's a sort of wish fulfillment that comes from a very bitter and misguided place.

'If only dem white folks hadn't come X would be a utopia!' is very different then say 'I wish I was muscular and was a hero rescuing dames from dictators' of something like John Carter of Mars.

Quote from: jhkim on March 18, 2021, 01:58:26 PM
So not only can you judge the game by not reading anything about it, you also claim to speak for your Lakota player without speaking to them - and neither of you having read anything about the game?!?

Who said I didn't speak to them? I'm godfather to her daughter and helped bring her whole family into my Church. She's also more conservative than I am and has zero tolerance for woke or even woke-adjacent nonsense precisely because of the way so many Wokists fetishize an image of her people and culture rather than actually bothering to actually get to know them as people.

Yet you presume you know my friend and what she thinks better than I do because you know their racial background?

You are behaving like exactly the sort of Wokist garbage my friend would kick the shit out of if you pulled your self-righteous moralizing about Native Americans in front of her.