Quote from: McrowI think when he said regular GM's, I think he just mean people who GM at cons all the time. I didn't take tickets @ Gencon or do any paper work for the same reasons he didn't. I just want to game, and give the players a good game. Not be hassled by paperwork.

If you're not willing to jump through the hoops then you don't deserve the cheese.  All the best cons I've attended are understaffed with overworked volunteers who busted ass to provide me with a place to run my stupid little games.  The idea that I would then turn around and blow off their stupid paperwork doesn't just seem rude, it's effectively biting the hand that feeds me.  

My local con has limited space.  Some years more events are submitted than fits the space.  Priority goes to GMs and games that did well in previous years.  If I hand in the paperwork and you don't, next year I might be running my game at your table.  We may have both filled our games, but the fact that I did was documented.

Quote from: jrientsIf you're not willing to jump through the hoops then you don't deserve the cheese.

I don't think anyone is saying any differently.  If you go to a con, and the cheese is beyond hoops (whether intentionally or because of their limited resources) then jumping through the hoops is how you get the cheese.  But not all conventions are like that, and it seems fair (to me) to say "I'm not really a hoop-jumper, so I'm going where they hand me cheese on a platter, instead."

Quote from: TonyLB"I'm not really a hoop-jumper, so I'm going where they hand me cheese on a platter, instead."

Which is a slightly different position than "I'm literally going to take any sheets or tickets and throw them away in front of you."

People, this is not Yours Truly or Pundit whacking someone, because we like to hyperbole. A lot.
If Jeff Rients calls somebody swine, or implies it, well this has to mean something.

That aside I´m astonished to hear that from Luke. he struck me as very down to earth, when he talked on theRPGsite.
But I`ve heard those entitlement lines so often, it´s just sad Luke`s also one of these guys.

Once and for all it is proven: It´s vanity press. Nothing else. Which says nothing about the product, only about the intentions of the maker.

I believe the product is good in this case, but regular Hobby people don`t even know or recognize Monte Cook, so: "get real!".

Having read that thread i don't see it quite as negatively as reading the highlighted quotes in the OP.

However, some of it just comes across as petulent as much as anything else. Not wanting to fill out forms? huh. What about fire regulations, logging people in so that everyone knows you're there etc? Badges? I don't need no stinking badges!

The real difference is that those volunteers 'bugging' him get nothing from their work. He might not be getting paid for attending, but increasing the profile of his games is it's own payment.

Having read Luke's posts elsewhere, however, i do tend to think he has some 'precious' tendencies. I've seen him roll out the "how many games have you designed?" quote once on RPG.net and no, before Tony asks, i don't have a link.

Quote from: jrientsWhich is a slightly different position than "I'm literally going to take any sheets or tickets and throw them away in front of you."

Yeah, that one sure does sound strange, I agree.  I'm hard pressed to think of the situation in which, if they're handing me the papers at all, I'd do that.  I suppose it would have to be where staffers were just running on automatic, and should know better:  I'd want to have made a "no paperwork" position really clear to the convention staff before I attended, if I were going to just toss paperwork.

I don't know exactly what Luke actually does, on that front.  He could be being a dick (accepting conventions invitations with all the paperwork that includes, then not living up to his obligations) or being a decent guy (telling conventions up front that he won't be doing paperwork, and then following through on that).  From what I know of him, I sorta figure the latter, but I don't have any evidence one way or the other.

Quote from: jrientsIf you're not willing to jump through the hoops then you don't deserve the cheese.  All the best cons I've attended are understaffed with overworked volunteers who busted ass to provide me with a place to run my stupid little games.  The idea that I would then turn around and blow off their stupid paperwork doesn't just seem rude, it's effectively biting the hand that feeds me.  

My local con has limited space.  Some years more events are submitted than fits the space.  Priority goes to GMs and games that did well in previous years.  If I hand in the paperwork and you don't, next year I might be running my game at your table.  We may have both filled our games, but the fact that I did was documented.

To be fair, Mike was running for HinterWelt. As a manufacturer, we were told that we did not have to collect tickets for our games as there was no benefit of being reimbursed for entry fees. So, as far as GenCon goes, they looked at me like I was retarded the first time I tried to turn in my tickets.

As to the "treated a GM" statement, I have run my games for going on 20 years at various cons and I have never expected anything more than to be treated as any of the other GMs. I find Luke's posts, in general, steeped in entitlement and I am a bit ashamed as I believe it reflects on game designers as some sort of effete intellectual.

However, the truly sad thing is that if he had real points to make, he could have chosen his words better so as to emphasize his points. The problem some small cons have is not poor treatment of game designers but generally poor organization. This is usually a perfectly understandable lack of manpower or training. You really can tell the difference between a professional con and a fan organized con.

Bill

If I was going to judge a person or a group based solely on what one person said or did at one time at some point or other, not only would all of you be on my Ignore List, but I would have given up on playing RPGs altogether back in GenCon 1993 when I went to the bathroom and sat in the stall next to a corpulent man who was masturbating loudly.

I'm just saying.

-Andy

There's a fairly big difference between saying "I won't jump through your hoops" and saying "I'll tear your hoops up in front of you." The first says you don'tt hink the cheese is worth the effort. The second says that you deserve the cheese more than everyone else, and so the hoops don't apply to you.

The second says that you're being melodramatic for effect while typing a rant on an Internet Forum.

How many times have people said (typed), "Man, I wish those fuckers would die?" when talking about some gamer or other because of what they believed or typed on an internet forum? A lot. How many people actually mean it, in a very real sense? If a single one of them, then they've got some serious fucking issues.

-Andy

Yeah, that's one way to read it. It isn't the impression I got and doesn't seem to mesh with the tone of the rest of the piece, but it's definitely a possibility.

Well, as Luke made several statements in the linked thread, my judgement stays the same. And honestly, I´ve got other things to do than discuss somebody who loves and longs to be discussed.
Calculating Planetary GDPs and Defense Bataillons, for example.

Quote from: Andy K....but I would have given up on playing RPGs altogether back in GenCon 1993 when I went to the bathroom and sat in the stall next to a corpulent man who was masturbating loudly.

:wtfsign:

Quote from: Andy KIf I was going to judge a person or a group based solely on what one person said or did at one time at some point or other ...

Pretty sure nobody's doing that, actually.  They're mostly grousing about Luke personally, not his associates by ... uh ... association.

I can't seem to be bothered by his list of demands. Luke asserts that at a Con he will work hard to bring the fun for the guests and wants the staff to work equally hard for him. The way I see it, he just wants to make a small contract of sorts between the guests and the Con. Once that happens it works both ways. If I as a con organizer agreed to make the effort to take care of him, after the basics, it would be in direct proportion to what I could tell was the visitor reaction to him. Seems fair to me.