Do you embrace the random?

Bill · August 08, 2013, 08:29:08 AM

I like random.

There are at least two types of random in an rpg though.

1) 'Completely' Random: Charts and rolls can generate nearly anything.

2) 'Limited random': The GM largely decides what is out there, such as a thieves guild. Then uses a chart to randomly determine how many thieves guild members show up to perform a crime.

You get quite a different flavor of random if a thieves guild suddenly appears essentially as a surprise.

silva · August 08, 2013, 09:11:38 AM

Nope. I prefer improv based on world logic and player choice, myself. Rolling and looking at different tables is a unnecesary waste of time for me.

Quote from: Justin Alexander(1) Empowering the players to make meaningful choices which change and define the outcome.

Yup. This.

The_Rooster · August 08, 2013, 09:11:52 AM

Quote from: Technomancer;678825Why? Very bad things sometimes happen to good people. No one says they have to stay and fight it.

Well, for one thing I'm trying to do a low-magic, low-fantasy setting. For another, one of my players did that to me twenty years ago and wiped out the entire party with it (I was playing Tenser and the others were the rest of the eight and we thought we could take it). I've never forgiven him for it.

On second thought, this is a good opportunity for revenge

Exploderwizard · August 08, 2013, 09:17:53 AM

Randomness helps maintain my interest in GMing. To me it would be depressing to run session after session knowing what was going to happen.

Not everything is random. The game world contains elements that are deliberately placed and some that are random. The whole world is kind of like stocking a dungeon in that regard. Define important things first, then randomly stock the rest.

silva · August 08, 2013, 10:35:02 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard;678841Randomness helps maintain my interest in GMing. To me it would be depressing to run session after session knowing what was going to happen.

Note that, even if you dont use randomizing tables for generating content, you can still use your improv abilities for it. And, since what you generate will depend on the players choices/decisions, you still wont know what is going to happen before-hand.

Kashirigi · August 08, 2013, 10:47:01 AM

I like random, but not too random. If whatever it is falls within a normal curve, that's usually better. That way, you still get a fair number of random events, but it's not a torrent of bizarre.

mcbobbo · August 08, 2013, 10:52:34 AM

I take hints. If players seem bored, I speed things along. If they aren't getting it, I will reintroduce a clue. That sort of thing. In this way, dice are like a player in that they can give me hints. If I am not sure what should happen I usually plot a quick probability in my head and roll it. For example, which front line melee guy gets bum rushed. Odd it's Ben, even it's Kelli.

crkrueger · August 08, 2013, 10:59:57 AM

Quote from: silva;678875Note that, even if you dont use randomizing tables for generating content, you can still use your improv abilities for it. And, since what you generate will depend on the players choices/decisions, you still wont know what is going to happen before-hand.

There's a significant difference between having a detailed and "world in motion" setting and using dice to determine what aspects of the setting the players encounter and having a a vague outline that is meant to be filled in only in response to player input. Or as James M. put it...

Quote from: James M. in one of his more lucid momentsIn old school games, the "story" arises from the synthesis of design, randomness, and reaction; it isn't something you can set out to create. That's why lots of people, in reflecting on old school gaming, will talk about how "unsatisfying" their experiences were. Likewise, many trends in modern RPG design are driven by a desire to ensure that every given game session is not only "fun" -- whatever that means -- but also meaningful. The simple reality is that that's an impossible goal and in fact I would argue that it's an unworthy one. Much like life, old school gaming is often "just a bunch of stuff that happens" and sometimes that stuff can be frustrating, boring, or even painful. The only "meaning" that stuff has is what the players and their referee bring to it.

Consequently, old school gaming makes demands on those who play it and relies pretty heavily on an imaginative and quick-thinking referee. Lacking in even one of those and its gameplay can feel "flat." At the same time, when it possesses both, you have an entertainment like no other because the outcome is largely unexpected. You never know where an old school game is going to take you, even if you're the referee.

silva · August 08, 2013, 12:18:23 PM

Quote from: CRKruegerThere's a significant difference between having a detailed and "world in motion" setting and using dice to determine what aspects of the setting the players encounter and having a a vague outline that is meant to be filled in only in response to player input.

Your falacy here is the assumption that the unexpected cannot be reached through methods other than randomizing tables. Its not only perfectly possible, but also results in faster gameplay since you dont need to stop the game to roll and consult different tables.

Quote from: James M. in one of his more lucid momentsConsequently, good gaming makes demands on those who play it and relies pretty heavily on imaginative and quick-thinking gamers. Lacking in even one of those and its gameplay can feel "flat." At the same time, when it possesses both, you have an entertainment like no other because the outcome is largely unexpected

This reflects my experience with all the good games I had in my life, be it with Shadowrun, Gurps or Apocalypse World.

And I never touched an "Old School" game.

Exploderwizard · August 08, 2013, 12:37:37 PM

Quote from: silva;678925Your falacy here is the assumption that the unexpected cannot be reached through methods other than randomizing tables. Its not only perfectly possible, but also results in faster gameplay since you dont need to stop the game to roll and consult different tables.

This reflects my experience with all the good games I had in my life, be it with Shadowrun, Gurps or Apocalypse World.

And I never touched an "Old School" game.

Randomness and improvisation are different things. You can run a fast moving game via improvisation without any of it being random. Choosing something on the fly and just going with it isn't random determination.

Randomness can also be used as launching point for improvisation.

silva · August 08, 2013, 01:44:32 PM

Quote from: ExploderwizardRandomness and improvisation are different things. You can run a fast moving game via improvisation without any of it being random.

Yup, and I didnt say the contrary. What I said was that the unexpected can be reached through both methods.

Tommy Brownell · August 08, 2013, 10:56:37 PM

Quote from: silva;678875Note that, even if you dont use randomizing tables for generating content, you can still use your improv abilities for it. And, since what you generate will depend on the players choices/decisions, you still wont know what is going to happen before-hand.

Oh yeah. The players alone wreak enough havoc on my plans that I don't have to worry about knowing everything that's going to happen.

RPGPundit · August 09, 2013, 10:00:35 PM

In answer to the OP: Always.

Dana · August 09, 2013, 11:10:23 PM

One of my players calls what I do "curated randomness." I use random encounter tables when they're traveling or exploring, and sometimes when I really don't want to have my thumb on the scale too much, I give the Mythic GM Emulator a shot at determining things.

I started using the Emulator earlier this year when my SO and I left a long-running campaign and brought our PCs into a spinoff I started. I hated the idea of turning my character into an NPC, so I've tried to keep things surprising even for me.

That said, if the random results are too stupid for anyone to want to deal with, I improvise. :-)

Black Vulmea · August 10, 2013, 12:56:39 AM

Quote from: silva;678925This reflects my experience with all the good games I had in my life, be it with Shadowrun, Gurps or Apocalypse World.

Once again you've demonstrated there's nothing you can't take completely out of context to peddle your bullshit.