What? The fact that the bastard's family - like most Muslims - reject and condemn  the nutter's violence?

And WTF has this to do with roleplaying and the Rivers of London books???

Quote from: The_Shadow;1116540Pardon me for living somewhere where the locals don't embrace becoming a minority in their ancient cities and the number of Muslim terrorist victims remains stubbornly stuck on zero...

I wasn't intending to denigrate people who don't live in a diverse city - I was just pointing out that the books reflect the diversity of London, and so any rpg adaptation should show this. And the terrorism point you make is frankly crass.

Quote from: Gagarth;1116543And here is one characteristic of open door multiculturalism which will not be portrayed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50647972

What? The point that the bastard's family - like most Muslims - reject his violence?

And what the fuck has this to do with roleplaying and the Rivers of London books?

Quote from: Marchand;1116541You're confusing England and London. London has had significant international presence going back a long way. There were the Huguenots in the 17th century, for ex. Cromwell lifted the ban on Jewish settlement in the 1650s. Going back further, maybe other refugee Protestant communities in the 16th century but I don't know enough about the history. Central Finsbury elected Dadabhai Naoroji, a Bombay Parsi businessman, as MP in 1892.

You might think migration is a good or bad thing, but you can't say it's new.

That is 1200 years after the Romans so using that as as excuse for 2000 years of a unbroken multicultural London is bollocks .  Capital cities and major ports have always had groups of  foreigners but to compare  that to the forced multiculturalism of New Labour is again bollocks.  The Ctrl-Lefts agenda is  for the entire country to meet and exceed London's current levels of multiculturalism. Also the Huguenots assimilated unless there are vast areas of London that speak French that I have missed or Huguenots setting off bomb vests while yelling Souviens toi de la rochelle.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;1116547What? The point that the bastard's family - like most Muslims - reject his violence?

And what the fuck has this to do with roleplaying and the Rivers of London books?

Chaosium, an activist game company, is licensing the book series for a RPG you dickhead.   The intent of books series like this to promote multiculturalism and highlight their difficulties.  But they don't tend to highlight the downside  of multiculturalism unless it is to justify it because of muh systemic racism.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;1116536Here in the UK the books are quite popular (and my wife loves then) but I've not been tempted to read them myself - I'm more of a Laundry guy.

And I agree that BRP is not the best fit.

I like the Laundry books but the last three or four seemed to fall flat I dont know why.

Quote from: Gagarth;1116551Chaosium, an activist game company, is licensing the book series for a RPG you dickhead.   The intent of books series like this to promote multiculturalism and highlight their difficulties.  But they don't tend to highlight the downside  of multiculturalism unless it is to justify it because of muh systemic racism.

I'm not sure. Mibbe the book series has been written as entertainment and proven fairly popular as the books are very enjoyable. OTOH it does have a lot of jazz and led me to listening to more of it. It may be part of some sort of jazz conspiracy.

Quote from: Garry G;1116582I'm not sure. Mibbe the book series has been written as entertainment and proven fairly popular as the books are very enjoyable. OTOH it does have a lot of jazz and led me to listening to more of it. It may be part of some sort of jazz conspiracy.

It never occurred to me that the books were 'woke'.  I just thought they were good.

Seems like good timing.  Get something developed and out there before the TV series.

How is any of this surprising? Chaosium is a woke SJW company now.

It's not the Chaosium of the 1980s, 1990s or even a decade ago. It's a cesspit of SJWs who believe drowning the hobby in woke propaganda is their path to cultural victory. If you buy ANYTHING from Chaosium, you know what you are supporting. If this leftist crap is the agenda you want in your games, then by all means, give Chaosium your money. Give where you are fed. Vote with your dollars. Support what you believe in.  

But don't pretend Chaosium has a lock on D100 gaming, horror RPGing or even Lovecraft and his Mythos. There are MANY small press companies to be found on DriveThru and Kickstarter who create equal or better products without the woke bullshit.

Quote from: Gruntfuttock;1116537London's been multicultural since the Romans.

Why yes, London had both Anglos AND Saxons!

But modern London with its glorious diversity of no go zones, rape gangs and acid attacks is such an improvement! Ah, the beautiful progress and gifts of multiculturalism.

Those Japanese kids are really missing out on the kewlness!

I haven't read the book series, but at least going by the article posted by the OP, it seems to be woke AF (granted, the article might be woker than the books themselves for all I know). The article mentions the books' focus on race, the protagonist frequently pointing out "microaggressions" (which are uncharitable, mind reading nonsense) and a Nigerian goddess coopting a foreign country's river. Mentioning race isn't necessarily "SJW" stuff, since sometimes race can be a relevant factor, but making a huge point of it (as the article seems to imply) can be. I wouldn't entirely dismiss the idea of foreign gods immigrating along with their worshipers, but when you have them taking over geographical features in a series that apparently (from what the article says) makes everything about race and the main character points out "microaggressions" that raises a lot of red flags.

Quote from: VisionStorm;1116596I haven't read the book series, but at least going by the article posted by the OP, it seems to be woke AF (granted, the article might be woker than the books themselves for all I know). The article mentions the books' focus on race, the protagonist frequently pointing out "microaggressions" (which are uncharitable, mind reading nonsense) and a Nigerian goddess coopting a foreign country's river. Mentioning race isn't necessarily "SJW" stuff, since sometimes race can be a relevant factor, but making a huge point of it (as the article seems to imply) can be. I wouldn't entirely dismiss the idea of foreign gods immigrating along with their worshipers, but when you have them taking over geographical features in a series that apparently (from what the article says) makes everything about race and the main character points out "microaggressions" that raises a lot of red flags.

I agree with your deduction. The article is from a woker perspective than the books. I've read the books and enjoy them. I really can't remember the hero (Peter Grant) ever commenting on "microagressions" per se. The books are told from his point of view and with his commentary. This certainly includes comments on how the public behave when faced by a PC - and a BAME PC too.  There's a number of "they say; we hear" type comments along these lines. To me it has seemed like astute or well-informed (the author credits some serving police officers for advice) writing.

I think the author (Ben Aaronovitch) has written in a way that is carefully considerate of cultural issues but if he was really woke he presumably wouldn't be writing in the voice of a young mixed race man for fear/awareness of cultural appropriation!  

Bottom line: I like the books.  Everyone I've recommended them to has enjoyed them. Ben Aaronovitch is also a former script write for Dr Who, which I think is really neat too. And - he has described his concept for the books as "Prime Supspect meets Ars Magica". There's a lot to like here!

I've read the first book.
I did quite enjoy it and clearly a lot of work was put into creating an interesting background to explore.
I didn't really think about it at the time, but yeah, I suppose there was level of PCness to it, but I didn't think it was overwhelming or affected the enjoyment of the book.

Still. I've read several Urban fantasy book series over the years, so whilst I liked it, it felt a little too much like "The Dresden files". That being the case, I probably won't continue reading the series.

I would love to see "The Dresden files" done with BRP.

Quote from: danskmacabre;1116608I would love to see "The Dresden files" done with BRP.

And I would love to see a modern horror setting like Fear Itself done with BRP.

Darn Nigerian deities, coming over here, stealing our rivers...

Most* Nigerians in London are devout Protestant Christians, as far as I can tell. I have a Nigerian church next door, they just put a nice Xmas card through my letterbox.

BTW Usman Khan and most Islamist terrorists who attack London aren't actually from London, they tend to be from Midlands & Northern cities where race relations are much worse. London's relative lack of inter-racial/inter-ethnic conflict is quite striking, and it's not unrealistic if you are running an RPG set here to have people generally getting along, and interacting in a fairly open and stress-free manner. Attempts to import American-style racial hatred here have not been very successful. I think the last racial riot was Broadwater Farm in the '80s; the 2011 riots were mostly Afro-Caribbean led, but didn't really target whites the way a US race riot would, and indeed many whites joined the rioters, with east Europeans notably keen to get some looting in. Meanwhile south-Asian groups (Muslims, Sikhs, Hindus) did not riot but often formed community defence groups, which the media praised (while condemning whites who did the same).

*Edit - there was that case a few years back of a Muti human sacrifice, where the torso of a young black African boy was found in the Thames. So there is certainly some nasty Animist practice going on, even though only a small minority of African immigrants are not overtly monotheist Christian or Muslim.

Quote from: Gagarth;1116543And here is one characteristic of open door multiculturalism which will not be portrayed https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50647972

I don't get this. Does having stories involving a muslim doctor and a muslim pc, not the main character, mean it has to be about terrorism? Is that it? There's a middle aged Irish Catholic in one of the books and they missed the chance for him being IRA. Fuck it the Scottish doctor could be a militant Scottish nationalist as well. Are these the stories you want?