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Anyone else not getting into FFG new Star Wars Rpgs

Started by Abraxus, June 16, 2017, 06:52:51 PM

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Abraxus

Maybe I'm getting old. Or just don't have time for rpgs that use proprietary dice. I tried to recently read Edge of the Empire and their dice mechanic I just don't get it. I look at the older D6 Star Wars and it seems so much simpler. Fire at a Storm Trooper roll your total of D6s take into account any Wild Die or other modifiers vs difficulty number. That being said the D6 has it flaws.  It may also be why I'm not going to buy the new Star Trek rpg. to me at least it just seems like FFG is trying to hard to be different which sometimes can be a good thing. Yet also complicating matters at the same time.

HappyDaze

I don't mind the dice because those serve to provide a greater range of outcomes than traditional dice. What I don't like are "talent trees" that make you take a bunch of shit you don't want (and may never use) in order to get to the things that you are interested in having. It's particularly amusing that the "Dedication" talent always requires you to bore down to the bottom of a tree and pick up at least four other talents along the way to it. So much for being dedicated to improving in that one specific way as the road to Dedication is paved with assorted XP-sink distractions.

Manic Modron

I ran the demo box for Edge of the Empire a while ago and it went well enough.  People were very engaged with the dice and suggested possible implications for the results, which was pretty fun.  Sadly, my group only has time for so many games in their life and we are largely full up, otherwise I'm sure we would be more into it.  I can see where people wouldn't want to deal with them, but in actual play they were fun and engaging.

hedgehobbit

I ran it for a few sessions and found that the dice were fundamentally flawed. In a normal game, I could easily have fixed it but I'd need to replace certain dice to really address the issue. Basically, since both Threat/Advantage and Success/Failure scale with the number of dice, resolutions tend to either succeed with tons of Advantage or fail with tons of Threat. Success with Threat or Failure with Advantage doesn't happen as often as it needs to which removes most of the point of having two axis of results.

Quote from: HappyDaze;969169It's particularly amusing that the "Dedication" talent always requires you to bore down to the bottom of a tree and pick up at least four other talents along the way to it. So much for being dedicated to improving in that one specific way as the road to Dedication is paved with assorted XP-sink distractions.
Agreed. I see Dedication as a sort of pseudo leveling mechanic. I don't have a problem with Talents per se, but the game does start off much better than it ends up.

Brand55

There have been at least one or two other threads about FFG's Star Wars games here. In short, some people love them and some think they suck. I tried the EotE beginner scenario for my group, and it didn't go over well at all with some of them. The dice mechanic was a huge obstacle, and I have to agree with those that see it as a problem. It may work, but you can get outcomes other than pass/fail with traditional dice (see games like The One Ring, Icons, or even golden oldies like Ghostbusters). I know that using a system relying on normal dice would have made the game far more attractive to groups like mine, even with all those Talent trees.

But it is what it is. I have plenty of options for Star Wars that I like more, and I know there are a lot of people who do like what FFG did with the official game.

Larsdangly


Just Another Snake Cult

It's a convoluted, borderline impenetrable, Rube Goldberg machine of a game seemingly designed by and for Dustin Hoffman's character from Rain Man.  

FFG had the Holy Grail of RPG licences and they flushed it down the fucking toilet. What a waste.
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S'mon

White Star looks to do Star Wars great... :D  ...probably not as great as 1e WEG d6 Star Wars though!
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Christopher Brady

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;969223It's a convoluted, borderline impenetrable, Rube Goldberg machine of a game seemingly designed by and for Dustin Hoffman's character from Rain Man.  

FFG had the Holy Grail of RPG licences and they flushed it down the fucking toilet. What a waste.

Yeap, flushed it so bad that they're making three separate lines that selling really well.  Complete and total loss...
"And now, my friends, a Dragon\'s toast!  To life\'s little blessings:  wars, plagues and all forms of evil.  Their presence keeps us alert --- and their absence makes us grateful." -T.A. Barron[/SIZE]

PrometheanVigil

Quote from: sureshot;969159Maybe I'm getting old. Or just don't have time for rpgs that use proprietary dice. I tried to recently read Edge of the Empire and their dice mechanic I just don't get it. I look at the older D6 Star Wars and it seems so much simpler. Fire at a Storm Trooper roll your total of D6s take into account any Wild Die or other modifiers vs difficulty number. That being said the D6 has it flaws.  It may also be why I'm not going to buy the new Star Trek rpg. to me at least it just seems like FFG is trying to hard to be different which sometimes can be a good thing. Yet also complicating matters at the same time.

The fuck is wrong with you? How the hell have you not enjoyed this game? It's one of the only decent RPGs that is out at the moment. I mean, EOTE is really fucking solid. Don't really give a shit about the other two because nobody wants to play fucking bontha spy or nutcase with a lightsaber (especially since we've got Jedi Academy for that!).

I see the point on the dice being weird. Unlike Burning Wheel's crap and FATE's "we don't like numbers" policy though, the game's rocking with a good mechanic that actually channels the spirit of the films (and the EU!). Specifically, doesn't matter if shit goes bad, shit goes left or shit actually goes well, something ALWAYS happens and it happens with style too.

I think the BIGGEST problem with the game -- not just the dice mechanics but the leveling system that powers them dice -- is that they've pretty much wholesale taken the shitty engine from the WHRP series and stuck in this series real nice 'n' quiet like. It was fucking awful in Dark Heresy, it's fucking awful here (thank God for Only War making that engine somewhat playable -- still had to modify the shit out of it though). The arbitary limitation on stat max makes it so that you'll always end up playing mid-levels even in a supposedly high-level lategame. Even worse, while in NWOD have exponential costings for dots makes sense and is fun as fuck as it's own minigame of progression, in EOTE that shit doesn't fly and characters don't really get different from each other until MUCH later, much like in the aforementioned WHRP system. Although this is more of a player problem, if you have shitty players then when they have one extra dice at something and you don't and you're trying to fucking do extra-curricular shit (say like tending wounded refugees with Medicine or something) you can't because realistically they'll probs succeed on it because of the sharp numbers curve.

As a side, WFRPG 3rd failed hard because they did that stupid shit they did with Savage Worlds and added in cards for no fucking reason. That and the same dice mechanic discussed above.

Otherwise, low-key here, this game is fucking solid as a motherfucker and honestly, I wish I could GM it for you so can feel the awesome (because fuck trusting others to in my experience)

Quote from: HappyDaze;969169I don't mind the dice because those serve to provide a greater range of outcomes than traditional dice. What I don't like are "talent trees" that make you take a bunch of shit you don't want (and may never use) in order to get to the things that you are interested in having. It's particularly amusing that the "Dedication" talent always requires you to bore down to the bottom of a tree and pick up at least four other talents along the way to it. So much for being dedicated to improving in that one specific way as the road to Dedication is paved with assorted XP-sink distractions.

Agreed, Talents is shit. Should be optional, like completely optional. It's not if you want a character to be able do stuff once the CRs start getting much higher.

Quote from: hedgehobbit;969173I ran it for a few sessions and found that the dice were fundamentally flawed. In a normal game, I could easily have fixed it but I'd need to replace certain dice to really address the issue. Basically, since both Threat/Advantage and Success/Failure scale with the number of dice, resolutions tend to either succeed with tons of Advantage or fail with tons of Threat. Success with Threat or Failure with Advantage doesn't happen as often as it needs to which removes most of the point of having two axis of results.


Agreed. I see Dedication as a sort of pseudo leveling mechanic. I don't have a problem with Talents per se, but the game does start off much better than it ends up.

It doesn't even start good. It requires having half-decent equip for it to start decent. You also need a GM who's open to non-combat solutions and RP-based or creative use of dice rolling in order to get awarded EXP

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;969223It's a convoluted, borderline impenetrable, Rube Goldberg machine of a game seemingly designed by and for Dustin Hoffman's character from Rain Man.  

FFG had the Holy Grail of RPG licences and they flushed it down the fucking toilet. What a waste.

Ah, shut your shit whino. Shiiittt.... That game's done fucking well and it's actually made dungeon dwellers want to play Star Wars in elfgame form. But I do agree with you on the convoluted part -- that's the standard party line for FFG on writing an RPG book unforts.

My nigga, they don't even have the WHRP license anymore. What the fuck you expect? That business was just a whole heaping mess.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969229Yeap, flushed it so bad that they're making three separate lines that selling really well.  Complete and total loss...

It's fucking epic, innit?
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finarvyn

I had a hard time with the dice at first, until someone told me it was "like reading tea leaves" and somehow that stuck with me. My group enjoyed dice interpretation and being able to be a little inventive as to what the results mean.

As to the rules, I don't like the complexity of the full rules sets but have enjoyed playing the Basic game through the boxed sets with the given pre-gens.
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Omega

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969229Yeap, flushed it so bad that they're making three separate lines that selling really well.  Complete and total loss...

Or its doing so badly that they need to get players to buy three different versions just to make a profit?

aheh...

Its the IP thats moving the game. Otherwise it likely would have not done as well.

Omega

Quote from: finarvyn;969250I had a hard time with the dice at first, until someone told me it was "like reading tea leaves" and somehow that stuck with me. My group enjoyed dice interpretation and being able to be a little inventive as to what the results mean.

As to the rules, I don't like the complexity of the full rules sets but have enjoyed playing the Basic game through the boxed sets with the given pre-gens.

Exactly. Its an "oracle" style game. I suspect some of the heavy resistance would not be there if they had not gone with the abstract symbols and used something a little more parsable.

Larsdangly

Quote from: Just Another Snake Cult;969223It's a convoluted, borderline impenetrable, Rube Goldberg machine of a game seemingly designed by and for Dustin Hoffman's character from Rain Man.  

FFG had the Holy Grail of RPG licences and they flushed it down the fucking toilet. What a waste.

This is exactly correct. The fact that it sells is not really very important to anyone but the publishers - it is a train wreck of a game.

Dumarest

Quote from: Christopher Brady;969229Yeap, flushed it so bad that they're making three separate lines that selling really well.  Complete and total loss...

I forgot that sales = quality.
:rolleyes: