Hey, I'm going to have female space marines at my Deathwatch games. And that's it.

Let's get back to talking about gaming instead of how other people game.

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;670416Hey, I'm going to have female space marines at my Deathwatch games. And that's it.

Let's get back to talking about gaming instead of how other people game.

Rock.

I don't think anyone has a problem with someone altering something to fit their group (well, except Blackhand). What I have a problem with is someone saying, "We need Female Space Marines because Male only Space Marines is sexist and bad and GW is sexist and bad and YOU'RE sexist and bad and should feel bad"

It's rather akin to Tipper Gore saying, "We need non-violent music because violent music is bad and Twisted Sister is violent and bad and YOU'RE violent and bad and should feel bad"

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;670416Hey, I'm going to have female space marines at my Deathwatch games. And that's it.

Let's get back to talking about gaming instead of how other people game.

Well, ultimately we game to have fun and if that is more fun for your group, then that is definitely what you should do. Of course, what would be fun for me and my group may be quite a bit different. I don't necessarily judge anybody for how they play any RPG, but it is more fun to discuss the merits and flaws of different takes on games than to just write it off as individual preference, even though it largely is.

Personally, I have less objection to allowing female Astartes in 40K than trying to make the Imperium more tolerant or accepting in general.

Quote from: Piestrio;670419I don't think anyone has a problem with someone altering something to fit their group (well, except Blackhand).

I love being misread.  If many posters responding to my posts actually took time to read my posts other than the first three words, they'd know that.

It's not that I have a problem with it.  If you want female Deathwatch, that's your own fanwank and I'm not a part of that.  It doesn't affect me.  I'm not sending out emails, posting on Facebook or blogging that it should all come to a stop.

I'm just saying you're missing the point of the setting with your cries of indignation and equality.

Quote from: Blackhand;670421I love being misread.  If many posters responding to my posts actually took time to read my posts other than the first three words, they'd know that.

It's not that I have a problem with it.  If you want female Deathwatch, that's your own fanwank and I'm not a part of that.  It doesn't affect me.  I'm not sending out emails, posting on Facebook or blogging that it should all come to a stop.

I'm just saying you're missing the point of the setting with your cries of indignation and equality.

"I love Being"

First three words

Quote from: Bill;670423"I love Being"

First three words

I stand corrected.  I do love Being.  :cool:

Quote from: Bill;670404I want to ride a Star Pegasi and seek out people with low self esteem!

Excelsior true believer!

Quote from: danbuter;670308EVERYTHING is related to gay sex, eventually (or any other fringe issue).

Have you read Ian Watson's Space Marine?

Quote from: Warthur;670443Have you read Ian Watson's Space Marine?

There are Zoats in that book.

'Nuff said.

Quote from: tzunder;670410I agree with you except, of course, you have *no* idea what a Marxist hero is like. But I accept that you have a different upbringing from mine. [Which was hardcore Marxist, Communist with a swirling pool of feminism and anarchism at the edges. I turned out fine.]

But that's another thread..

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;670412I think that I do, I think it is hard to go through life without of heavy exposure of Marxism from various sources and to various degrees. What could constitute a Marxist hero in fiction can vary quite a bit, depending on how they approach the issue and how obvious they want to be.

I know this is really off topic. But, both of you really amuse me. People who live in a country with perhaps a socialist slant, talking about how you know all about Marxism, and Communism. Having an extensive understanding of it all. I wonder what people that post in this very forum, that grew up in soviet and soviet satellites think of your understanding of these concepts.

Quote from: Sergeant Brother;670398You almost always see it in some form of media where there is some right wing, politically incorrect, or overly harsh character or organization that could potentially be interpreted as protagonists. It may be satire, some sort of message to show that the protagonist is bad, or could be a deconstruction of sorts, but many people will lach onto the politically incorrect characters or groups and see them as the heroes.

I think that there is a good reason for that sort of misplaced fandom. It is because we live in such a politically correct world where all of our media and entertainment is filtered through this lens of political correctness, where we have to limit what we can say and think at work, at school, at college, and in large portions of our daily lives. There are people who feel the need for some relief from this omnipresent and oppressive PC and they can have that in their entertainment. Unfortunately, entertainment is overwhelminingly politically correct as well and does not adequately meet the people's need - so they adopt satire and twist it in such a way as to provide an outlet, albeit an over the top one, for their non-PC feelings.

That is why the 40K setting has changed, because people didn't want satire, they wanted the fascists to be the heroes because they're tired of the Marxist heroes they see everywhere else.

Both sides are the same. People are rarely that different. Maybe some people who have to go through being marginalised, for whatever reason, don't want to play games where the have to face the same issues they face day in, day out. I mean, that seems just as soul-crushing as the right-wing dude who can't escape "Marxism".

Quote from: Ronin;670517I know this is really off topic. But, both of you really amuse me. People who live in a country with perhaps a socialist slant, talking about how you know all about Marxism, and Communism. Having an extensive understanding of it all. I wonder what people that post in this very forum, that grew up in soviet and soviet satellites think of your understanding of these concepts.

Stalin didn't have much use for small-'c' communists. Look what he did to the anarcho-syndicalists in Catalonia.  Then again, Stalin didn't have much use for things the breathed.

Quote from: Ronin;670517I know this is really off topic. But, both of you really amuse me. People who live in a country with perhaps a socialist slant, talking about how you know all about Marxism, and Communism. Having an extensive understanding of it all. I wonder what people that post in this very forum, that grew up in soviet and soviet satellites think of your understanding of these concepts.

I was heavily exposed to Soviet culture as a foreigner. I have worked extensively in Eastern Europe from the end of Communism to now and I have friends in their 50s and 40s who worked or grew up in the East. Several of my friends are experts on Russia pre and post Soviet. Actually *I* am, they're the über experts.

So I agree with you. The experience of soviet communism, euro communism, socialism and so on is very different, often with similar language and similar base concepts and texts, but with massively different actualities.

And that also goes the same between a Euro Communist family in Western Europe and a family in Warsaw Pact Poland in, say, 1979 as much as the USA right slinging about the tag "Marxist" now to describe centre left softies and old Skool prudes, all in the same pot.

The extent to which the Warsaw Pact was a mix of the older strands of Central and Eastern Europe, the Russian Imperial State, Austro Hungary, Hitler, etc means that come the mid 21st century it'll probably be the number one table top gaming genre!

Quote from: Blackhand;670444There are Zoats in that book.

'Nuff said.

More to the point, there's Imperial Fists ordering naked teenagers to don skintight bodysuits (the Pain Glove) for torture purposes, plus ritualistic ass-branding and all sorts of shenanigans - in other words, there's been stacks of S&M homoeroticism in 40K for ages, and some of it is still canon (there's a Pain Glove sequence in Sons of Dorn, a recent Imperial Fists novel, which reads like a very mild rewrite of the one in Space Marine).

The conversation is veering far from RPGs. This forum is for discussions about roleplaying games, not politics.