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Got to Love Postmortem Studios

Started by Snowman0147, May 20, 2014, 12:38:28 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Zeea

I'd really like to meet some of these social justice warriors that don't understand the difference between prejudice (personal bias) and racism (systematic oppression), or who use trigger warnings for everything (instead of criticizing the abuse of trigger warnings like I do, and like most of my friends do), or who think Wil Wheaton is a racist or Joss Whedon is a transphobe (or whatever stupid fucking thing that one random idiot on the internet somewhere believes).

Can you name the SJWs on rpg.net who have said any of that stuff you think they've said, tenbones?

Also, this?

"You're not saving minorities by trying to squash someone's ethnic satire. You're not going to stamp out idiocy by banning words or thoughts - even bad ones. It's not better to override a persons capacity to choose what kind of information they can process for themselves - based on your emotional views of the world that *might not even be relevant*. Sorry, but generally<--- see that) if you're white, you're never going to "get" what being a black/hispanic/asian/martian is like in a predominantly white culture. That's not racist, that's just reality. "

Yeah. Guess what? That's pretty much the number one thing we say. White people can't speak for black people, cisgender people can't speak for transgender people, straight people can't speak for gay people, etc. Being allies is great, but when some bad shit happens, people who aren't the targets should generally be supportive of the targets, not go off on their own crusade.

This ludicrous notion that "SJWs" are cynically appropriating other peoples' struggles for credit is ridiculous. You can say whatever you want about my rants against sexism or homophobia or transphobia, but I'm a gay transsexual woman and I talk about that stuff because it affects me directly. I've had people tell me I was going to hell, ask family members why they hadn't shot me for transitioning, send creepy propositions online, or treat me like an imbecile when they see my female usernames. So that's stuff I feel pretty inclined to discuss. That's the stuff many of my friends discuss, too. We're usually the ones who get cited as the SJWs over there, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.

GRIM's card game? Most of the people in that thread over there weren't "SJWs," but just regular users. I sure as heck haven't commented on that particular card, because that's not my place. As someone who is regularly labeled an "SJW", and as a woman, though? Sure, I have every damn right to comment on shit that's talking about me. (And my comments have been, "Your mechanic is funny, your cards aren't really that witty, and Ettin's game is funny." And Ettin's game _is_ funny, not because of who he targets, but because of gems like "you're so white bread, when you were born your mom dinged like a toaster." If GRIM had lines like that, this card game would have met with a lot less "this fucking sucks" from people who don't even like SJWs.)

Have you actually been over there lately, or kept track of who is saying what? Or are you just going off of things you hear here and assuming that the "rpg.net SJWs" are this big monolithic blob who are synonymous with Tumblr SJWs.*

*Seriously, we make fun of those folks more than people here do.

Snowman0147

Try Pundit's blog for starters.  Mind you this link will piss you off cause it certainly pisses me off.

Zeea

Quote from: Snowman0147;752129Try Pundit's blog for starters.  Mind you this link will piss you off cause it certainly pisses me off.

I don't see anything concrete there about rpg.net's "SJWs" that I happened to look at. I am, however, partially surprised that Pundit and I have the exact same views on social skill rules in RPG. But I won't derail with that since it has zero to do with this topic.

S'mon

Quote from: Snowman0147;752011Tenbones that reminds me of a blog post in Pundit's blog.

Wil Wheaton said that something something was his totem animal.  A SJW said that was racist and he should apologize.  So Wil did and gave his reason why he said it.  The SJW then said it wasn't good enough and it is problematic.  So she makes a big fuss about it.  Wil polite called out on that bullshit.

The main point is in another tumblr thread in which Pundit provided a link to has a actual native american.  She had no issue at all with the Wil using the totem animal.  In fact she was quite angry at the SJW and said that all SJWs should just get run over.

I should take offence at this scummy SJW on behalf of my wife, for her racist-SJW assumption that whites can't have totem animals... my wife's part Finnish, and traditionally Elk Clan. Not that there's anything wrong with whites from non-Shamanic cultures having totem animals if they want!
Shadowdark Wilderlands (Fridays 2pm UK/9am EST)  https://smons.blogspot.com/2024/08/shadowdark.html
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crkrueger

Quote from: Zeea;752128Yeah. Guess what? That's pretty much the number one thing we say. White people can't speak for black people, cisgender people can't speak for transgender people, straight people can't speak for gay people, etc.
So...there weren't any straight white males posting in the Grim thread then, eh?  Because there aren't any straight white males on RPG.net who post there or on Tangency about SJW issues. :rolleyes:

BTW is Ettin gay, transgendered, a woman, or non-white?

Quote from: Zeea;752128This ludicrous notion that "SJWs" are cynically appropriating other peoples' struggles for credit is ridiculous. You can say whatever you want about my rants against sexism or homophobia or transphobia, but I'm a gay transsexual woman and I talk about that stuff because it affects me directly. I've had people tell me I was going to hell, ask family members why they hadn't shot me for transitioning, send creepy propositions online, or treat me like an imbecile when they see my female usernames. So that's stuff I feel pretty inclined to discuss. That's the stuff many of my friends discuss, too. We're usually the ones who get cited as the SJWs over there, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.
My guess would be the other 99% of Tangency.

Nothing to say about Ali, huh?  What a fucking shock.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

Zeea

#215
Quote from: CRKrueger;752146Nothing to say about Ali, huh?  What a fucking shock.

Or maybe I already commented on it elsewhere way back when it was relevant and see no reason to waste time rehashing things for the benefit of some random jackass who's looking to score points, eh? I think Pundit's position is stupid, I think the university's position is stupid, I think Ali's position is stupid, and I think the whole thing is stupid. She's understandably lashing out from trauma, but that also very understandably alienates Muslim students who have nothing to do with what happened to her, so the university should have done some research and avoided problems for both sides. But that doesn't mean this is some referendum over whether women or Muslims get more protections, because this is a complicated situation. There's not always a clear good guy and bad guy.

Also, the notion of Ettin as an "SJW" stretches the concept so far that it's meaningless. But sure, go ahead and do that, since you're really just using it as a random meaningless slur that applies to anyone you dislike. Know what? You're an SJW now. How's that? :p

EDIT: Also, speaking for people? Nope. Backing them up? Sure. That's called being an ally. I don't want cisgender folks to decide what being transgender means, or how transgender people feel, or anything like that. But if transgender people as a whole ask for support on something legit, sure, that's fine and great. Much like it's good that there were white people supporting the black civil rights marches, but they weren't trying to run the show.

tenbones

#216
Quote from: Zeea;752128I'd really like to meet some of these social justice warriors that don't understand the difference between prejudice... etc. etc.

You're being cheeky with me right? heh. I was banned from RPGnet defending the accusations from the Usual Suspects *there* that Paizo writ-large are a bunch of racists because their creation, Golarion was "racist".

Now... I don't personally care to go back and sift through the detritus of that site (especially after this JD incident) - but as far as I know only the mods there have the ability to ban people. I didn't just ban myself. Nor do I wade into heated discussions seeking to be banned. (regardless of what you might assume, I'll put that to rest, just in case).

And the sycophantic that play Grima Wormtongue to those mods, who shout people down for merely asking questions and not even directly opposing them get carte blanche to break those very same rules? And you're okay with that? I'd be fine if they applied their rules consistently, but that's not what they do.

Hell, as far as I can tell, half the people on THIS forum have been banned from the Big Purple, and a lot of it has to do with the SJW attitude there. Are you being serious? Please tell me you're not.

Quote from: Zeea;752128Yeah. Guess what? That's pretty much the number one thing we say. White people can't speak for black people, cisgender people can't speak for transgender people, straight people can't speak for gay people, etc. Being allies is great, but when some bad shit happens, people who aren't the targets should generally be supportive of the targets, not go off on their own crusade.

*First* - I don't know who *you* are. Don't even pretend to aside from enjoying the discussion.

Second - This is a joke right? I've been inundated with SJW irony-humor so much in the last two-days that my detector is completely broken...

Quote from: Zeea;752128This ludicrous notion that "SJWs" are cynically appropriating other peoples' struggles for credit is ridiculous. You can say whatever you want about my rants against sexism or homophobia or transphobia, but I'm a gay transsexual woman and I talk about that stuff because it affects me directly. I've had people tell me I was going to hell, ask family members why they hadn't shot me for transitioning, send creepy propositions online, or treat me like an imbecile when they see my female usernames. So that's stuff I feel pretty inclined to discuss. That's the stuff many of my friends discuss, too. We're usually the ones who get cited as the SJWs over there, so I'm not sure who you're talking about.

Yeah - I don't think I was talking to you. As you yourself indicated... you're not sure who I'm talking about but decided to assume I was (I wasn't.) I think I've been pretty clear. to be be clear - it's not you. But if you want to rant at me about your particular issues... well I'm always open to discuss them.

Quote from: Zeea;752128GRIM's card game? Most of the people in that thread over there weren't "SJWs," but just regular users. I sure as heck haven't commented on that particular card, because that's not my place.

So, you're saying that you think this is about a card-game? I'm talking about a much larger picture generally. The emotional ranting and shit spawned by that forum, which btw I *NEVER* even knew who JD WAS until it blew up on that forum, was generated completely free of me. I was looking for something asinine relating to the race-thread concerning "Japs" here. And there that shit-storm was raging...

Whether you want to call the people at the Big Purple "Regulars" or not... the Mods *ARE* responsible for that site. And what do you have when the Mods themselves are participating in those very toxic mob rants? Sorry... You're wrong. And being an SJW has unfortunately become a pejorative for the *very* reason you're missing? You can't have it both ways. It can't be the chickens running the coop WHILE the guy owning the chickens is running around trying to fuck them all.

And in case you start telling me the Mods are allowed to have their opinion. Yes - I will agree. But then I will also say that they must then take full responsibility for the perception of their actions - and that means their entire site including the people that feel comfortable there, or as you put it, "the regulars". Because *those* people seem to be able to break the forum rules without penalty. And the mods themselves do it too.

The mere fact JD *IS* a game developer and that shitstorm is disguised as a discussion about a card-game is insulting to *everyone's* intelligence. If it weren't - we wouldn't be having this discussion would we?

Quote from: Zeea;752128As someone who is regularly labeled an "SJW", and as a woman, though? Sure, I have every damn right to comment on shit that's talking about me. (And my comments have been, "Your mechanic is funny, your cards aren't really that witty, and Ettin's game is funny." And Ettin's game _is_ funny, not because of who he targets, but because of gems like "you're so white bread, when you were born your mom dinged like a toaster." If GRIM had lines like that, this card game would have met with a lot less "this fucking sucks" from people who don't even like SJWs.)

So you obviously put a lot into labels. I think that's where you and I are on different continents emotionally. I wasn't referring to you (I don't pretend to know you, so knowing you're coming from this POV - you can put your guard down).

I long ago learned to discharge the idea that someone else gets to decide things for me. Sure you can do it on the surface as a point of reference. But my ego doesn't depend on such things. Actions define you. What you think you're thoughts are... are kinda cheap. What you do with them, that's where the rubber hits the road. Picking up a label and parading it around on an internet forum (as is the case in this topic on SJW's) isn't helping *anyone* who is suffering from real discriminatory threats. NO ONE.

Trying to tell people otherwise on the internet and worse: attacking their livelihood because of a groupthink spawned misconception is dangerous to this community. And whether I, or anyone here at RPGsite likes it or not, the people that go to the Big Purple *are* a big part of the internet gaming community (maybe not gaming writ-large). And it is troubling in the context of our hobby.

Quote from: Zeea;752128Have you actually been over there lately, or kept track of who is saying what? Or are you just going off of things you hear here and assuming that the "rpg.net SJWs" are this big monolithic blob who are synonymous with Tumblr SJWs.*

*Seriously, we make fun of those folks more than people here do.

I'm going to take you at face value. So if you're joking, I do apologize.

Yes I was "just over there". No I don't take down names of people who have "wronged me on the internet", I find that idea asinine. I also find the notion of your emotional investment in your view on this topic of identifying with a term like "SJW"... well, less than "well-thought", to be polite. The amount of conflation you're putting into the particulars of this issue based on *YOUR* personal issues is disingenuous at least, and outright ridiculous at most.

See the reason I don't "wring my hands" about those things is because I actually do participate in helping people with real issues in my real life. Just like I saved lives of people who shot at me during the King riots for thinking I was a Korean (yep in the heat of rioting, all slanted eyes look the same), just like I participate and host interfaith dialogs in my community, just like I deal with people in my own life who, like you, (assuming you're being serious) are trans-gendered, and gay. I work in healthcare now - it's my job to care, and I DO care, or I wouldn't be doing this professionally. It's something I derive great personal satisfaction out of. Especially when people who have issues and they come to me to try and see the bigger picture, other than the picture they concoct of reality that centers on... you guessed it: themselves.

*NO* one can stand up to the kind of scrutiny of one's own ego without great discipline.

That's why SJW's are often wrong in their execution of their ideas. They're taking their own emotional issues and steamrolling everyone involved in a cultural problem without allowing for the possibility that they, themselves, are part of the problem. And isn't *that* just it? Again, assuming you're serious - you have issues right? (hint: we all do) Why do you think that those issues don't impact how you apprehend your beliefs especially online?

One of the hardest things another human can do is understand and admit to themselves that other people have the capacity to feel emotion as strongly as yourself. Sounds obvious, but if you stop and consider how SJW discussions turn out most of the time... you'll see it's not reason that's being discussed. It's emotional invectives.

It's like the old saying: "you are the sum total of all your life's decisions. Hows that working for you?"

That's something most people with big issues don't want to acknowledge. It's easier to go crusading based on the principles that ones life is a series of bad results and circumstances, rather than addressing how you handled them in the aftermath.

So when you talk about your trans-gendered issues - I'm trying to relate from my experiences of trauma (which I won't go into details unless you wanna talk about it in PM's) but the sum of them for me is always about how you deal with it. I find that bickering with people to the point where you're going to: censor, /ignore, stalk, or go to the lengths of creating products as equally as crass as the accused by their OWN standards - is unproductive to say the least.

Is that how we want, as the gaming community, to comport ourselves? There's a reason this site exists... right?

Zeea

Good post, tenbones. I've got to run a game now, and that's a lot to reply to so I'll have to maybe try later, but I just wanted to acknowledge that. But yes, I do have issues and generally try to acknowledge them publically so that people know what my biases are. Everyone is biased, and I don't usually trust people who claim to be objective.

Simon Owen

#218
Quote from: Zeea;752150EDIT: Also, speaking for people? Nope. Backing them up? Sure. That's called being an ally. I don't want cisgender folks to decide what being transgender means, or how transgender people feel, or anything like that. But if transgender people as a whole ask for support on something legit, sure, that's fine and great. Much like it's good that there were white people supporting the black civil rights marches, but they weren't trying to run the show.

Bullshit. That thread over there is a 50 page witchhunt & character assassination against Grim. That's why I went in to defend him and I got permabanned for my pains ( no citation as to which rule I had broken , McClennan just did it because he felt like it despite participating in that thread as a non-mod ). They broke their OWN rules by allowing attacks against a game designer ( Rule 2 ) and allowing a non-RPG topic on the RPG forum just to get at Grim. It was a lynch mob.
That's what SJW's are Zeea , a lynch mob who have formed a parasitic attatchment to the very people they portend to help. The Grim thread proves it.

EDIT : Great post tenbones , you said it much better than I did.
Social order at the expense of liberty is hardly a bargain - The Marquis De Sade.

S'mon

Quote from: Simon Owen;752154Bullshit. That thread over there is a 50 page witchhunt & character assassination against Grim. That's why I went in to defend him and I got permabanned for my pains.

I don't really know why people still bother to do this on rpgnet. It's like posting on Stormfront trying to explain that blacks and Jews aren't so bad, really. You are not dealing with well-meaning-but-misguided people. That should be very clear by now.
Shadowdark Wilderlands (Fridays 2pm UK/9am EST)  https://smons.blogspot.com/2024/08/shadowdark.html
Open table game on Roll20, PM me to join! Current Start Level: 1

crkrueger

Quote from: Zeea;752150She's understandably lashing out from trauma, but that also very understandably alienates Muslim students who have nothing to do with what happened to her, so the university should have done some research and avoided problems for both sides.
So I'm sure you think you alienate all Christians when you talk about some Christian's homophobia, huh?  Or alienate all Jews when you talk about the West Bank, or alienate all US service men everywhere when you speak about Wounded Knee or My Lai, or all heterosexuals when you talk about Matthew Shepherd? Somehow I really fucking doubt it.

Quote from: ZeeaAlso, the notion of Ettin as an "SJW" stretches the concept so far that it's meaningless.
If by SJW, you mean someone who has fought for social justice I would agree.

Quote from: ZeeaBut sure, go ahead and do that, since you're really just using it as a random meaningless slur that applies to anyone you dislike.
Thought that was your Schtick.

Quote from: ZeeaKnow what? You're an SJW now. How's that? :p
By the definition above, I'm probably more one then Ettin.

Quote from: ZeeaEDIT: Also, speaking for people? Nope. Backing them up? Sure.
Ah, of course, when a whitey tells another whitey he's being racist towards black people, and his language is offensive to them, he's not speaking for black people, he's backing them up, right?  So your definition of speaking for vs. backing up is based on whether you like the speaker.

You crusade for your own cause, that's cool, but please don't expect anyone to believe that 90% of purple isn't affluent white college age kids without a single fucking hardship being your "ally" because it feeds their own sense of self worth.  Been on that merry go round, most of us have.
Even the the "cutting edge" storygamers for all their talk of narrative, plot, and drama are fucking obsessed with the god damned rules they use. - Estar

Yes, Sean Connery\'s thumb does indeed do megadamage. - Spinachcat

Isuldur is a badass because he stopped Sauron with a broken sword, but Iluvatar is the badass because he stopped Sauron with a hobbit. -Malleus Arianorum

"Tangency Edition" D&D would have no classes or races, but 17 genders to choose from. -TristramEvans

jeff37923

Quote from: Zeea;752128You can say whatever you want about my rants against sexism or homophobia or transphobia, but I'm a gay transsexual woman and I talk about that stuff because it affects me directly.

So this is actually a personal crusade for you. Gotcha.

I'm going back to gaming now. When I want to do some consciousness raising, I'll do it outside the internet where it may make a difference.
"Meh."

Zeea

Quote from: CRKrueger;752160So I'm sure you think you alienate all Christians when you talk about some Christian's homophobia, huh?  Or alienate all Jews when you talk about the West Bank, or alienate all US service men everywhere when you speak about Wounded Knee or My Lai, or all heterosexuals when you talk about Matthew Shepherd? Somehow I really fucking doubt it.

Sometimes, sometimes, rarely, no, in that order. I have like four close friends who are evangelical conservative Christians and a couple of dozen acquaintances who are, since I don't hang around in echo chambers all day whining about a purple forum. Are you a fucking idiot or what?