Quote from: CRKrueger;751693That one looks good.

Hell man, I wasn't calling you out on anything, just pointing out the irony.  

Grim may have done it in a lowbrow, bad taste fashion, but the criticism is correct.  The SJW crowd at purple is such an outrageously bad joke, that it kind of deserves that level of humor.  The fact that Zeea crows about their newfound "influence" and "power" only hangs a lampshade on the joke for everyone to see and the joke's not funny, it's really pretty sad.

The Shanna Germain incident basically proved the one thing rpg.net is not about, is rpgs.  Not anymore.

Another reason that parody is hard is that some people can't get parody.

Read GRIM's post talking about how he believes "SJWs" have power, then read that entry in that context. We're on an offshoot of a tiny niche site, talking about games that almost nobody plays anymore. The purple site finally banning people who are total jackasses is literally the only power I've ever seen "SJWs" have anywhere. Mild influence over a couple sites in a hobby where the most influential industry figures are still completely unknown to everyone outside the hobby* is not really power and it's pretty ludicrous to complain about it.

*Gary Gygax (Futurama appearances and the like), Michael Stackpole (X-Wing series and other books), and Sandy Peterson (id Software's DooM) are the only exceptions I can think of. I think GRRM is a gamer, but I don't know if he ever published game stuff.

Quote from: Zeea;751797about games that almost nobody plays anymore.

I am gone for a few days and 4e threads crop on RPGsite?

Quote from: One Horse Town;751764I dunno. I'm fed up with the whole deal. Someone writes something stupid and offensive and rightly catches flack for it, while this other guy over there somewhere writes something equally offensive and gets a free pass just 'cos.

There's a scattergun approach being employed that gets people who are barely involved, you get sarky shits who aren't just happy with you agreeing with them - you have to show the mandated level of offense and step up to hit the piggy on a rope, or you know, you're as bad as Hitler.

It's very depressing and i'm glad that in reality about 1% of the people on RPG forums bother getting involved, but it's really does poison everything.

Gaming should not be a political tool and it is becoming one.

Gaming should be fun escapism and i support minorities being reflected properly in their hobby of choice. However, gaming itself shouldn't be about real-life politics in a fictional milieu - sure, hold a mirror up to reflect your views and wishes, but for fuck sake don't piss in the fun pot to do it.

First of all - I just meant that as a drive by joke, as in you literally forgot (Self) Righteous etc. etc.

Second of all - I understand you and even agree to a part, except for the part about "rightful flack", but that is something we will differ on - I think everything should go, while you think that you should treat both ends of the same spectrum similar, as in with flak.

Quote from: Zeea;751797Another reason that parody is hard is that some people can't get parody.

Read GRIM's post talking about how he believes "SJWs" have power, then read that entry in that context. We're on an offshoot of a tiny niche site, talking about games that almost nobody plays anymore. The purple site finally banning people who are total jackasses is literally the only power I've ever seen "SJWs" have anywhere. Mild influence over a couple sites in a hobby where the most influential industry figures are still completely unknown to everyone outside the hobby* is not really power and it's pretty ludicrous to complain about it.

*Gary Gygax (Futurama appearances and the like), Michael Stackpole (X-Wing series and other books), and Sandy Peterson (id Software's DooM) are the only exceptions I can think of. I think GRRM is a gamer, but I don't know if he ever published game stuff.

If you look over on their 'Edgy Designer' thread you'll see they have degenerated into Oppression Olympics, which is just perfect. Literally life mirroring art.

If you think PC was only about the RPG situation, you're wrong. The issue is much broader and the social and political power much more powerful. Consider proposed trigger warnings in academia, the erosion of presumption of innocence in campus sexual assault cases and even calls for presumption of guilt in courts. Consider Suey Park being taken seriously and interviewed and feted. Consider Anita Sarkeesian - a _known_ fraud being presented with an award. Consider the destructive effect SJWs had on the Occupy movement and on New Atheism. Consider the chilling effect on computer game innovation, comics, analogue gaming etc.

RPGs are more vulnerable because they're a smaller niche but there's a common pattern in division and censure, rarely bringing anything new but rather trying to shut down and change the existing things people love.

It isn't that I am against racial, sexual or gender equality but rather that the SJWs aren't for it and are often some of the most hateful, bigoted shitbags it has ever been my misfortune to encounter.

Quote from: GRIM;751803If you look over on their 'Edgy Designer' thread you'll see they have degenerated into Oppression Olympics, which is just perfect. Literally life mirroring art.

If you think PC was only about the RPG situation, you're wrong. The issue is much broader and the social and political power much more powerful. Consider proposed trigger warnings in academia, the erosion of presumption of innocence in campus sexual assault cases and even calls for presumption of guilt in courts. Consider Suey Park being taken seriously and interviewed and feted. Consider Anita Sarkeesian - a _known_ fraud being presented with an award. Consider the destructive effect SJWs had on the Occupy movement and on New Atheism. Consider the chilling effect on computer game innovation, comics, analogue gaming etc.

RPGs are more vulnerable because they're a smaller niche but there's a common pattern in division and censure, rarely bringing anything new but rather trying to shut down and change the existing things people love.

It isn't that I am against racial, sexual or gender equality but rather that the SJWs aren't for it and are often some of the most hateful, bigoted shitbags it has ever been my misfortune to encounter.

Nothing, but truth had been spoken in here.  If I had it my way I would vanish them and the other hateful trolls as well.  The world would be better off without them.

Quote from: GRIM;751803If you look over on their 'Edgy Designer' thread you'll see they have degenerated into Oppression Olympics, which is just perfect. Literally life mirroring art.

If you think PC was only about the RPG situation, you're wrong. The issue is much broader and the social and political power much more powerful. Consider proposed trigger warnings in academia, the erosion of presumption of innocence in campus sexual assault cases and even calls for presumption of guilt in courts. Consider Suey Park being taken seriously and interviewed and feted. Consider Anita Sarkeesian - a _known_ fraud being presented with an award. Consider the destructive effect SJWs had on the Occupy movement and on New Atheism. Consider the chilling effect on computer game innovation, comics, analogue gaming etc.

RPGs are more vulnerable because they're a smaller niche but there's a common pattern in division and censure, rarely bringing anything new but rather trying to shut down and change the existing things people love.

It isn't that I am against racial, sexual or gender equality but rather that the SJWs aren't for it and are often some of the most hateful, bigoted shitbags it has ever been my misfortune to encounter.

This sounds a lot like someone complaining that the existing power structure is changing and they don't like it, and then some claims about whether some individuals I've never heard of should be listened to.

Why did you write cards that specifically target real demographics (both marginalized ones and otherwise) as opposed to absurd, fictional ones or the behaviors you wished to satirize?

It seems in your posts about your game, the behavior you take umbrage at is people misappropriating identities or a sense of oppression, but the mechanics of your game actually mimic people calling each other names, before 'true identities' are revealed.

Quote from: Adric;751820Why did you write cards that specifically target real demographics (both marginalized ones and otherwise) as opposed to absurd, fictional ones or the behaviors you wished to satirize?

Why not? Why not use satire to critic, question, undermine, lampoon?

Why are some topics, some people, some choices and other inherent behaviours off-limits from analysis and "inclusion" in the great wide world of satire and buffoonery?

There are no limits, there is no line in the sand. There should not be, there must not be. Because as soon as you start protecting special interests and start inhibiting discourse you end free expression and freedom of thought.

There are no lines in the sand. Erase the lines. Question, mock, interrogate fucking everything.

And when you do you discover the real motives, the real backgrounds, the real stories. It is not about fearing change, it is about fighting for the freedom and the ability to think and act like a rational human being.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;751833Why not? Why not use satire to critic, question, undermine, lampoon?

Why are some topics, some people, some choices and other inherent behaviours off-limits from analysis and "inclusion" in the great wide world of satire and buffoonery?

There are no limits, there is no line in the sand. There should not be, there must not be. Because as soon as you start protecting special interests and start inhibiting discourse you end free expression and freedom of thought.

There are no lines in the sand. Erase the lines. Question, mock, interrogate fucking everything.

And when you do you discover the real motives, the real backgrounds, the real stories. It is not about fearing change, it is about fighting for the freedom and the ability to think and act like a rational human being.

If your justification for acting offensively is "because I should be allowed to." that's a terrible reason. Sure, you're allowed to be as offensive as you like, but everyone else is allowed to tell you that's offensive, and they need no special qualification or justification beyond the fact that they find your actions offensive.

Just because you have the right to say anything you want, that doesn't immediately give everyone else the responsibility to listen to you or include you. Sure, nothing is sacred, least sacred of all is a shitty opinion.

If people are actively making a community worse, exclude them from the community.

My question for Grim wasn't "How dare you do this?" it was "If your goal is X, why did you pursue a course which resulted in Y?"

Quote from: Adric;751837If people are actively making a community worse, exclude them from the community.

Heh, try "If people disagree with us in any way, shape or form they are insane, deluded and/or evil and their arguments (and eventually them) must be done away with."  Fanatical ideology, same shit, different day.  

Kids swing right or left in High School and then veer more violently the other way in college.  Unfortunately, the fringes on both ends are becoming nuttier and scarier by the day, leading fewer and fewer to waking up and actually thinking.  Add in the inherent passivity and recognition seeking performances of the internet generation and you get a perfect storm of nothing but awful purple shit.

Quote from: CRKrueger;751843Heh, try "If people disagree with us in any way, shape or form they are insane, deluded and/or evil and their arguments (and eventually them) must be done away with."  Fanatical ideology, same shit, different day.  

Kids swing right or left in High School and then veer more violently the other way in college.  Unfortunately, the fringes on both ends are becoming nuttier and scarier by the day, leading fewer and fewer to waking up and actually thinking.  Add in the inherent passivity and recognition seeking performances of the internet generation and you get a perfect storm of nothing but awful purple shit.

I haven't said they aren't allowed to say or do what they want, or that they "must be done away with." I've said they don't have an immediate right to be listened to or be included in a social group. This isn't excluding someone because of who they are, this is excluding them because their actions and words negatively impact the group.

Quote from: GRIM;751803Consider the chilling effect on computer game innovation, comics, analogue gaming etc..

Oh okay, I'll bite. What innovation in video games is being held back by SJW's? Especially when you consider;

* The AAA gaming space has became increasingly hit-dominated, with publishers relying on a few major hits a year. Innovation is a big risk, and publishers are very risk-averse these days. This will only get worse as the cost of development increases.
* One of the most lauded games out of the indie space last year was basically about reading a lesbian teenager's diary (I haven't played Gone Home; there may be subtleties I have missed there)
* Recent 'controversies' (Like, say, Tomodachi Life) have been about wanting to be included as well, rather than instead of something else

Quote from: Ladybird;751858Oh okay, I'll bite. What innovation in video games is being held back by SJW's?

More advanced jiggle physics. The Wii U was going to have an entire extra processor devoted to it, but then a fourteen-year-old made a wicked Tumblr post lambasting it and they had to lay off the entire jiggle physics department.

Quote from: BarefootGaijin;751754Fuck. That. McCarthy era, or am I overstating the comparison?

I thought fundamentalist religion personally , but that's a good comparison.

No person who did evil ever thought they were doing something evil , they all thought they were doing the right thing.

Quote from: Adric;751850I haven't said they aren't allowed to say or do what they want, or that they "must be done away with." I've said they don't have an immediate right to be listened to or be included in a social group. This isn't excluding someone because of who they are, this is excluding them because their actions and words negatively impact the group.

No, your sentences contradict themselves; you are exactly eliminating people in a forum type situation. If you had ever worked for a real SJ type group, you would know that constructive engagement is a key tactic, not internet type shout-downs. Problem is, nobody is on the internet is who they say they are, so it is all some pointless game of one upmanship.

Quote from: CRKrueger;751843Heh, try "If people disagree with us in any way, shape or form they are insane, deluded and/or evil and their arguments (and eventually them) must be done away with."  Fanatical ideology, same shit, different day.  

Kids swing right or left in High School and then veer more violently the other way in college.  Unfortunately, the fringes on both ends are becoming nuttier and scarier by the day, leading fewer and fewer to waking up and actually thinking.  Add in the inherent passivity and recognition seeking performances of the internet generation and you get a perfect storm of nothing but awful purple shit.

QFT. Both the extreme left and the extreme right are truly horrible and truly weird. We're surrounded.

Quote from: Ladybird;751858Oh okay, I'll bite. What innovation in video games is being held back by SJW's? Especially when you consider;

* The AAA gaming space has became increasingly hit-dominated, with publishers relying on a few major hits a year. Innovation is a big risk, and publishers are very risk-averse these days. This will only get worse as the cost of development increases.
* One of the most lauded games out of the indie space last year was basically about reading a lesbian teenager's diary (I haven't played Gone Home; there may be subtleties I have missed there)
* Recent 'controversies' (Like, say, Tomodachi Life) have been about wanting to be included as well, rather than instead of something else

I agree with you here : there's only a few companies making games and they are playing to the crowd in the most part because the cost of making a game is so high. Anything a bit left field is going to be dismissed : remember Will Wright and all his problems with getting ' The Sims ' published ? Money is inherently conservative - businessmen know business and they don't always get creative types.
In computer games the SJW's are mainly politicians capitalising on the fears of ordinary people ( who don't play ) :  ' Grand Theft Auto ' has got hit several times over this with the ' Hot Coffee ' mod and the ' ZOMG ! You can have sex with a prostitute and then kill her ' thing.