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The Lounge => Media & Inspiration => Topic started by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2020, 07:01:09 PM

Title: Dune trailer
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 09, 2020, 07:01:09 PM



Looks great. Sounds terrible. Lots of pointless dialog that doesn't mean anything. I can only hope that none of that shit except the Gob Jabbar scene are actually in the finished film.


MEH
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Pat on September 09, 2020, 07:10:32 PM
Sounds generic. Wasn't impressed by the acting, either.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 09, 2020, 11:21:47 PM
I tried to read the first book and got bogged down. Are they really worth reading?


I've heard people state that Robert Jordan stole several major ideas for his world from the Dune series.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 10, 2020, 12:35:01 AM
I tried to read the first book and got bogged down. Are they really worth reading?


I've heard people state that Robert Jordan stole several major ideas for his world from the Dune series.


I'm a Herbert fan, so I'm biased, keep that in mind.


The first book is a sci-fi classic. the next two are relatively short and finish up the story started in the first book. After that, the books get really far out, even compared to the first 3. But I love God Emperor and even read through Chapterhouse and Heretics, which are bricks and not easy reads.


And between Foundation (by Azimov) and Dune, you'll find most of the classic sci-fi tropes that inspired a lot of current stuff.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Hawkwing7423 on September 10, 2020, 09:21:28 AM
I certainly loved the Foundation series and read it several times.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: BedrockBrendan on September 13, 2020, 01:51:04 PM
I tried to read the first book and got bogged down. Are they really worth reading?


I've heard people state that Robert Jordan stole several major ideas for his world from the Dune series.


The first three books are some of the best science fiction out there. I think a lot of people get bogged down the first time they try to read Dune. It is a bit nuanced and complex in how it handles politics. My advice is read it when you are in a good mood. If you can't get through it on a second try, probably not for you.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Pat on September 13, 2020, 05:18:43 PM
The first three books are some of the best science fiction out there. I think a lot of people get bogged down the first time they try to read Dune. It is a bit nuanced and complex in how it handles politics. My advice is read it when you are in a good mood. If you can't get through it on a second try, probably not for you.
I disagree a bit. I think the first three books form a relatively coherent unit, remaining similar in time, scope, theme, and characters. But while Dune (book 1) is wildly original, Messiah and Children are more derivative. They're still worth reading certainly, but not as ground-breaking. But I think there's a second classic in the series, and it's God-Emperor. Book 4 follows naturally (inevitably) from the events in the original series, and is even centered on a (wildly transformed version of) one of the main characters in Children, but it's completely different and very original, and deals with difficult concepts and themes.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 14, 2020, 11:37:12 AM
I liked many of the books, up to an including God Emperor of Dune, if I remember correctly.
I am mildly positive about this trailer, although I am not sure how much I like the lead actor. The costumes etc look pretty true to the source material, and the effects too. It also looks like it's free of SJW talking points, which is something Hollywood often tries to insert everywhere.

"Pointless "dialog"? Uh.....did you read the books? There are literally philosophical/historical preambles at the start of every chapter, and (as far as I remember) the characters also go on about politics etc quite a bit.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 14, 2020, 12:46:47 PM
I liked many of the books, up to an including God Emperor of Dune, if I remember correctly.
I am mildly positive about this trailer, although I am not sure how much I like the lead actor. The costumes etc look pretty true to the source material, and the effects too. It also looks like it's free of SJW talking points, which is something Hollywood often tries to insert everywhere.

"Pointless "dialog"? Uh.....did you read the books? There are literally philosophical/historical preambles at the start of every chapter, and (as far as I remember) the characters also go on about politics etc quite a bit.


Is that last directed at me? By pointless, I mean where characters toss around important sounding bites of dialog that don't really impact the story or tell you anything. "Every legend has a beginning" (Not from the movie, but as an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about..)



Talking about philosophy, history, psychology, etc at least has some kind of point he's trying to get across.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 14, 2020, 02:27:35 PM
The first three books are some of the best science fiction out there. I think a lot of people get bogged down the first time they try to read Dune. It is a bit nuanced and complex in how it handles politics. My advice is read it when you are in a good mood. If you can't get through it on a second try, probably not for you.
I disagree a bit. I think the first three books form a relatively coherent unit, remaining similar in time, scope, theme, and characters. But while Dune (book 1) is wildly original, Messiah and Children are more derivative. They're still worth reading certainly, but not as ground-breaking. But I think there's a second classic in the series, and it's God-Emperor. Book 4 follows naturally (inevitably) from the events in the original series, and is even centered on a (wildly transformed version of) one of the main characters in Children, but it's completely different and very original, and deals with difficult concepts and themes.


I have a vague memory of really liking Dune Messiah, but it’s been a long time. I agree that God Emperor of Dune was great.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 14, 2020, 02:41:37 PM


Is that last directed at me? By pointless, I mean where characters toss around important sounding bites of dialog that don't really impact the story or tell you anything. "Every legend has a beginning" (Not from the movie, but as an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about..)



Talking about philosophy, history, psychology, etc at least has some kind of point he's trying to get across.


I have to disagree again. Some of the snippets you hear are bits and pieces of some of the most famous quotes from the book.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 14, 2020, 05:08:14 PM


Is that last directed at me? By pointless, I mean where characters toss around important sounding bites of dialog that don't really impact the story or tell you anything. "Every legend has a beginning" (Not from the movie, but as an example of the kind of thing I'm talking about..)



Talking about philosophy, history, psychology, etc at least has some kind of point he's trying to get across.


I have to disagree again. Some of the snippets you hear are bits and pieces of some of the most famous quotes from the book.


I acually had that discussion with my brother. Besides the Gom Jabbar scene, and the litany against fear, can you name any specifically? The litany is like the Dune version of "May the Force be with you" and I totally expected that. The Gom Jabbar scene stuck out for me because all the rest of the trailer dialog sounded like hollywood tripe.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 14, 2020, 06:01:45 PM


No, I read the book more than 20 years ago, but those immediately rung a bell, and they are pretty prominent in the trailer. Another conversation is about Paul starting to foresee things before they happen, which is a theme throughout the whole series. I also remember the “mood” of the book, and personally it sort of rung true again. The book had a lot of inner dialogue, less action (though it looks like there will be some action, which is great). The only phrase that seemed out of place was something about destiny, but that was just written on the trailer, not said by any character.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Warder on September 15, 2020, 05:48:22 PM
I read the books by Frank Herbert and one by Brian Herbert, which i liked but did not follow on.
Dune and its sequels are worth the read in my opinion but if you expect a faithfull adaptaion i doubt it will happen.

Even the movie by Lynch did some things diffrently, i found the ending funny considering how it would spell total disaster for the heroes, probably not what Lynch was going for.

Now the books were something else, i agree with Ratman view on the first three telling the main story.

I liked the others for its continuation and i found it sad it did not get an ending it deserved because of Frank Herberts death. Same case as with Roger Zelazny.
To sum it up, i recommend reading the first book, if you can power through you will be satisfied. Its a calssic for a good reason.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 15, 2020, 06:46:59 PM
Even the movie by Lynch did some things diffrently, i found the ending funny considering how it would spell total disaster for the heroes, probably not what Lynch was going for.



Yep. Because water is posionous to the sandworms and rain on Arrakis would destroy the spice. An actual plot point of the first book where Paul was going to use a chain reaction to kill off the whole ecosystem as a threat to the other galactic powers.
I liked Lynch's film, but some parts of the adaptation were not so good.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: ThatChrisGuy on September 16, 2020, 06:21:56 PM
The mouth of the sandworm looked like a giant space anus.  This does not fill me with confidence.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Spinachcat on September 16, 2020, 07:53:14 PM
"Giant space anus" is exactly how I'd rate that trailer.

I expect it to be ponderous and boring, just like the director's wankass Blade Runner sequel. Yet again, nothing original, nothing bold, just paint by numbers CGI and soy-acting.

If you are a Dune fan (or scifi fan), check out Jodorowsky's Dune. His vision was so far superior. Maybe someday it will be honored with an animated version.
http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/ (http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/)

I wonder if the whole book will be in the movie or whether they're going to try for a LotR trilogy by making Dune 8-9 hours long? 
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Pat on September 16, 2020, 09:35:29 PM
If you are a Dune fan (or scifi fan), check out Jodorowsky's Dune. His vision was so far superior. Maybe someday it will be honored with an animated version.
http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/ (http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/)
That's one of the two great documentaries about the creation of a film.

The other is Lost Soul: The Doomed Journey of Richard Stanley's Island of Dr. Moreau.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 17, 2020, 12:54:27 PM
Was the old Dune computer game any good? I had Dune II, which was a cool strategy game (and highly influential), but my impression was that Dune I was more like an RPG?
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 17, 2020, 04:41:13 PM
"Giant space anus" is exactly how I'd rate that trailer.

I expect it to be ponderous and boring, just like the director's wankass Blade Runner sequel. Yet again, nothing original, nothing bold, just paint by numbers CGI and soy-acting.

If you are a Dune fan (or scifi fan), check out Jodorowsky's Dune. His vision was so far superior. Maybe someday it will be honored with an animated version.
http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/ (http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/)

I wonder if the whole book will be in the movie or whether they're going to try for a LotR trilogy by making Dune 8-9 hours long?
OK I looked into it, and oh boy do I disagree here. I personally think science fiction goes from "hard" SF to "soft" SF to what I like to call "mushroom" SF (or simply "mushroom fiction" because there is no science in it). Jodorowsky and Moebius are the people who made me come up with the latter terms years ago (they were actually high on mushrooms when they wrote some of their stuff).

Dune, the book, to me is fairly "soft". Actual science is bent pretty strongly in Dune when it suits the story, and it can be pretty trippy, but science occasionally pops up in the discussions about problems of interstellar flight, ecosystems etc. Jodorowsky's vision is super-trippy, and probably would have looked more like 5th Element (one of the most "mushroomy" films I know, and which stole a lot from Jodorowsky). Apparently the one major element that made it from Jodorowsky's film to Lynch's version is the way Vladimir Harkonnen is portrayed, the worst part of that whole thing if you ask me. Paul wasn't supposed to be an ACTUAL messiah, but to Jodorowsky he is. Jodorowsky said he wanted to metaphorically "rape" Dune, and he was probably right.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Ratman_tf on September 17, 2020, 05:52:49 PM
"Giant space anus" is exactly how I'd rate that trailer.

I expect it to be ponderous and boring, just like the director's wankass Blade Runner sequel. Yet again, nothing original, nothing bold, just paint by numbers CGI and soy-acting.

If you are a Dune fan (or scifi fan), check out Jodorowsky's Dune. His vision was so far superior. Maybe someday it will be honored with an animated version.
http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/ (http://www.jodorowskysdune.com/)

I wonder if the whole book will be in the movie or whether they're going to try for a LotR trilogy by making Dune 8-9 hours long?
OK I looked into it, and oh boy do I disagree here. I personally think science fiction goes from "hard" SF to "soft" SF to what I like to call "mushroom" SF (or simply "mushroom fiction" because there is no science in it). Jodorowsky and Moebius are the people who made me come up with the latter terms years ago (they were actually high on mushrooms when they wrote some of their stuff).

Dune, the book, to me is fairly "soft". Actual science is bent pretty strongly in Dune when it suits the story, and it can be pretty trippy, but science occasionally pops up in the discussions about problems of interstellar flight, ecosystems etc. Jodorowsky's vision is super-trippy, and probably would have looked more like 5th Element (one of the most "mushroomy" films I know, and which stole a lot from Jodorowsky). Apparently the one major element that made it from Jodorowsky's film to Lynch's version is the way Vladimir Harkonnen is portrayed, the worst part of that whole thing if you ask me. Paul wasn't supposed to be an ACTUAL messiah, but to Jodorowsky he is. Jodorowsky said he wanted to metaphorically "rape" Dune, and he was probably right.


I haven't read them, but from what I understand, Jodorowsky used his Dune adaptation ideas to create a graphic novel called "Incal". Which I much prefer. (The idea of)  I'm sure his trippy ideas are entertaining, but when I'm watching an adaptation of any material, especially one I like, I'd like to see them try to actually resemble the source material.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Spinachcat on September 17, 2020, 07:01:18 PM
If anyone enjoys INCAL, I highly recommend MetaBarons which is even more Dune inspired and the storyline gets insane, but wondrously done.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12123436-the-metabarons (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12123436-the-metabarons)

OK I looked into it, and oh boy do I disagree here.
And now we must duel to the death!
 
I personally think science fiction goes from "hard" SF to "soft" SF to what I like to call "mushroom" SF (or simply "mushroom fiction" because there is no science in it). Jodorowsky and Moebius are the people who made me come up with the latter terms years ago (they were actually high on mushrooms when they wrote some of their stuff).
I absolutely agree that "Mushroom SF" is a good description of Jodorowsky, Moebius and much of Heavy Metal / Metal Hurlant. It's space fantasy with little, if any, care about the science part of science fiction.

I won't be surprised if David Lynch chomps on shrooms when doing scripts and storyboards for any of his films.


 
Jodorowsky's vision is super-trippy, and probably would have looked more like 5th Element (one of the most "mushroomy" films I know, and which stole a lot from Jodorowsky).
Visually, Valerian and City of a Thousand Planets (also by Luc Besson of 5th Element) shares elements of that "trippy scifi".

However, when reading Dune, I envisioned something far more "trippy" and fantastical than Asimov's Foundation whose setting feels far more concrete.

The trailer shows neither. It's generic modern movie scifi, only out of fear of daring to present a new vision. Even Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor: Ragnorak had the balls to step outside the lines.

At this point, I doubt we're going to get a truly original scifi vision out of Hollywood.  Maybe a Russian, Brazilian or Korean movie.
 
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Trond on September 17, 2020, 07:50:43 PM
If anyone enjoys INCAL, I highly recommend MetaBarons which is even more Dune inspired and the storyline gets insane, but wondrously done.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12123436-the-metabarons (https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/12123436-the-metabarons)

OK I looked into it, and oh boy do I disagree here.
And now we must duel to the death!
 
I personally think science fiction goes from "hard" SF to "soft" SF to what I like to call "mushroom" SF (or simply "mushroom fiction" because there is no science in it). Jodorowsky and Moebius are the people who made me come up with the latter terms years ago (they were actually high on mushrooms when they wrote some of their stuff).
I absolutely agree that "Mushroom SF" is a good description of Jodorowsky, Moebius and much of Heavy Metal / Metal Hurlant. It's space fantasy with little, if any, care about the science part of science fiction.

I won't be surprised if David Lynch chomps on shrooms when doing scripts and storyboards for any of his films.


 
Jodorowsky's vision is super-trippy, and probably would have looked more like 5th Element (one of the most "mushroomy" films I know, and which stole a lot from Jodorowsky).
Visually, Valerian and City of a Thousand Planets (also by Luc Besson of 5th Element) shares elements of that "trippy scifi".

However, when reading Dune, I envisioned something far more "trippy" and fantastical than Asimov's Foundation whose setting feels far more concrete.

The trailer shows neither. It's generic modern movie scifi, only out of fear of daring to present a new vision. Even Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor: Ragnorak had the balls to step outside the lines.

At this point, I doubt we're going to get a truly original scifi vision out of Hollywood.  Maybe a Russian, Brazilian or Korean movie.
OK the crysknives are out!
.....uh I guess I just disagree. I got even more hyped the second time I saw the trailer. Good to know I'm not alone; some die hard Herbert fans on Youtube are going nuts. I am liking Chalamet more now that I think of it. My issue was I didn't like him in the King, but dang this is actually bringing back memories of the book pretty vividly. Still we'll see if they manage to mess up the actual movie. 

Weirdly, I think the movies that you mention are the ones that look generic to me at this point. I didn't like them at all.
Title: Re: Dune trailer
Post by: Spinachcat on September 17, 2020, 10:02:45 PM
Weirdly, I think the movies that you mention are the ones that look generic to me at this point. I didn't like them at all.
That just proves you like wrong things!! :(

I also gave the trailer a second viewing. While the adaptation (at least what we see in the trailer) looks "faithful" to the book, it feels paint by numbers. Also, it feels small, not a galactic epic.

I'm assuming the over-reliance on voice over is just for the trailer, so I'm not judging that. I will give them credit for a trailer that (a) packs a lot of info into 3 minutes, and (b) doesn't spoil much.

Considering how few people read anymore, I do wonder if they could have hidden the fact House Atreides gets betrayed and left that as a big surprise for the audience.