Quote from: sureshot;997327For C7 to get me to buy the new core they need to offer more than the same run down house with a new coat of paint.

See, for a lot of us, it's NOT a 'run down house'.
You keep talking about 'fixing' something we don't think is broken... changing aspects of the game that a lot of fans consider part of its core atmosphere.
I see nothing 'disingenuous' about releasing a new printing. I bought all the editions of Call of Cthulhu (till 7e) and didn't feel cheated.
Change the cover, change the art, I don't care... go over previous errata and whatnot, add back the setting info Fantasy Flight's version left out of 2e, give me more adventures and setting for it... but if there's no clear and clamoring reason to alter the rules... don't do it.


It really sounds like you should wait and go for the Age of Sigmar version... I'm sure there's a whole lot less whiffing in that.

Quote from: sureshot;997327As much as I find the Mohawk look silly. It is a iconic look. It should remain imo.

So you're saying the big feet and surfboard swords are also here to stay?

Why call it 4E then. If they are not changing anything.

I think that bothers me more than anything. I can understand and respect the fans who don't want anything altered. I won't respect a company marketing/promoting a new edition and keeping it the same. Be honest and just reprint 2E material with the C7 logo. I doubt they would simply just do a rehash imo. They have competition from Zweihander so they do need to offer some new material. Even if it is a minor amount. Don't second guess how gamers hate buying redundant material. Some will complain it's either too different or not different enough. Even when told way ahead of time in flashing day-glo orange neon letters in the sky. I don't assume gamers like new editions, don't assume just because you like a rehashed edition that other gamers will.

As for combat I guess it was our gaming group that liked to mob the target. They do need to make it easier to hit with Ranged Weapons from a distance though imo. I make a character who specializes in ranged combat only to be told to get within melee range for bonuses. Why then specialize or even use a ranged weapon. If the only advice is to get close then D&D does a better job of handling ranged combat.

I will probably still buy it because I like the background and the majority of the system.

Quote from: Bren;997367So you're saying the big feet and surfboard swords are also here to stay?

I can't say with any certainty. Having begun gaming in the mid 1980s and seeing how notoriously afraid of change many rpg gamers are they will remain.

I'm sure there will be changes. C7 said they'll be taking the direction of 4e from the first two editions, not that they're going to just copy the entire game entirely.

Quote from: sureshot;997368They do need to make it easier to hit with Ranged Weapons from a distance though imo. I make a character who specializes in ranged combat only to be told to get within melee range for bonuses. Why then specialize or even use a ranged weapon. If the only advice is to get close then D&D does a better job of handling ranged combat.

This is just false. Aim as a Half Action for +10. Outnumber your enemies for additional bonuses or to offset the shooting into melee penalty. And there's always the miscellaneous actions you and your friends can take which can give additional bonuses, at the GM's discretion. Plus, enemies can't dodge or parry ranged attacks so you're at an even higher advantage compared to melee. That's a good reason right there for characters to often help set up foes for their ranged comrades to snipe from a distance.

Quote from: Bren;997367So you're saying the big feet and surfboard swords are also here to stay?

Big feet and surfboard swords are artistic license and miniature casting decisions.  The mohawks are actually from the setting itself - the death cult of Trollslayers.

They have most of the 2e range up on PDF if you want to keep using 2e.  They're keeping that available.

C7 didn't get the license to do whatever the hell they wanted with it.  They got it provided they:

• Release a new, 4th Edition WFRP RPG.
• Release an AoS RPG.

It's going to be a d100 based game, influenced by 1st and 2nd mechanically, that will be set in the "Pre-Storm of Chaos/End Times Era", aka the "Enemy Within Era".

Quote from: sureshot;997368I can understand and respect the fans who don't want anything altered. I won't respect a company marketing/promoting a new edition and keeping it the same.

I'm not against ANY change, I just want the changes to be well-reasoned and in sync with the original flavor of the game... not chasing after hot new trends or adding in gimmicks/widgets... like proprietary dice or cards or dominoes (though I do like Noumenon).
Changes for the sake of marketing 'NEW & IMPROVED!' just irritate me.

Generally, if I like a game... that's the game I like. I don't look for changes/evolution/fashion updates. Just more content.
If someone wants to make a NEW game on the same setting/topic... have at it, change up the rules however you like... but acknowledge it's a different game aimed at a different focus/flavor/audience.

Quote from: CRKrueger;997380"Pre-Storm of Chaos/End Times Era", aka the "Enemy Within Era".

Yeah, I was excited to hear that. It'll be nice to have places like Middenheim and Wolfenburg whole again.

Quote from: CRKrueger;997380They have most of the 2e range up on PDF if you want to keep using 2e.  They're keeping that available.

Bought that... I'm hoping it does well enough that they'll release more PDFs of the 1e stuff.

Quote from: Simlasa;997381I'm not against ANY change, I just want the changes to be well-reasoned and in sync with the original flavor of the game... not chasing after hot new trends or adding in gimmicks/widgets... like proprietary dice or cards or dominoes (though I do like Noumenon).
Changes for the sake of marketing 'NEW & IMPROVED!' just irritate me.

As much as I want to like the new Star Trek/Wars rpg I can't get into them. Mainly because of the proprietary dice. At the same time a rpg company cannot market a new edition which end up being a stealth rehash edition. Not saying C7 as I was in error. Just trying to get my point across. That's why Paizo released Starfinder. It's still very much 3.5. with much more in the way of changes. Pathfinder  core is about 80-90% rehash with 10-20% developer houserules added on. Simply being Pathfinder in Space would not have sold as well imo.


It's a Catch-22 damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Side question, sureshot... what proprietary dice in Star Trek?  Or were you just lumping them together into licensed scifi games and then talking about Star Wars specifically?

Quote from: sureshot;997386At the same time a rpg company cannot market a new edition which end up being a stealth rehash edition.

If you want changes so badly, what do you propose... in addition to making PCs more competent right off the block?

I expect that they'll tweak the career system a bit... probably some aspects of the magic system.

What I'd really loathe is for them to make it less deadly or more 'heroic'... which I'm assuming/hoping will be left for AoS.

Quote from: CRKrueger;997380They have most of the 2e range up on PDF if you want to keep using 2e.  They're keeping that available.

And even if you prefer print, it's quite possible that the production of a new game will drive down prices for older material. I'm seeing it happen with the Decipher Star Trek game right now.

Quote from: CRKrueger;997379Big feet and surfboard swords are artistic license and miniature casting decisions.  The mohawks are actually from the setting itself - the death cult of Trollslayers.

I can only go by what I've seen. But my inner pedant thanks you for the clarification.