Starfinder release day. Whatcha think?

Ulairi · September 11, 2017, 11:27:58 AM

Quote from: Christopher Brady;991485This is true. And yes, I say give Starfinder a year, and we can then judge its success.

Is there any evidence of this? (Not denying it, but I want ammo against some of the diehards around here. Yes, I can be VERY petty sometimes.)

There is IVC2 "top sold games" but mostly I go on seeing Pathfinder played at cons/flgs and I have seen it dwindle. I don't know how much of that is due to the line being like 10 years old VS 5E. I just make the guess that Pathfinder succeeded because WoTC really screwed the pooch with 4E. 5E seems to be well liked amongst the varios D&D player bases (or liked "enough") that it kind of has to hurt PF sales.

Reckall · September 11, 2017, 04:12:18 PM

Quote from: Schwartzwald;986255So is paizo dying? I have a friend who limed pathfinder.

Nothing in the RPG field "dies": my two main games right now are D&D 3.5 and the French "30° Anniversaire" version of COC - which basically is a 6.5 Ed.- of the game who never got published in English. As long as you have the books and the ability to come up with adventures (or the willingness to convert them) no game ever dies.

dungeon crawler · September 11, 2017, 04:44:09 PM

From what I have seen I am whelmed by it. Probably will not spend any cash on it.

RPGPundit · September 13, 2017, 03:42:57 AM

I think Paizo's ultimate destiny is very similar to White Wolf's. They were huge because D&D was in a moment of weakness; now that moment has passed, and they will keep slowly but steadily eroding their market share as they march into irrelevance. How slowly depends on choices they make along the way.

fearsomepirate · September 13, 2017, 12:50:14 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;991986I think Paizo's ultimate destiny is very similar to White Wolf's. They were huge because D&D was in a moment of weakness; now that moment has passed, and they will keep slowly but steadily eroding their market share as they march into irrelevance. How slowly depends on choices they make along the way.

Agreed, but it's a question of what level or sort of irrelevance they fade into. They could become the premier 3rd-party publisher for 5e. They'd end up smaller than they are now, but still in a sustainable position. The window for that is closing as Kobold Press seems to be rising to top, though. Alternatively, Starfinder could end up becoming a moderately successful RPG, as unlike Pathfinder, it's actually something significantly different from D&D. Science Fantasy seems like a thing people enjoy (cf. Shadowrun), and if they execute well enough, they could end up sustaining operations, though not at their current level.

Mistwell · September 13, 2017, 01:37:42 PM

Quote from: Justin Alexander;990154Not really. The Starfinder SRD is also available for free.

WotC's PDF version of their core rulebooks are more expensive than $10 and require a subscription to access.

There is no legal PDF version of the full PHB. If you're referring to D&D Beyond, that's not a PDF. It has a LOT more utility than a PDF.

fearsomepirate · September 13, 2017, 04:29:47 PM

The 5e SRD is free. Have no idea what that guy is on about. Ever.

Armchair Gamer · September 13, 2017, 06:14:54 PM

Quote from: fearsomepirate;992064The 5e SRD is free. Have no idea what that guy is on about. Ever.

IIRC, the 5E SRD is considerably less comprehensive than the 3.X and Pathfinder SRDs--the latter contain just about everything mechanical from the books they encompass (although in PF's case, that's probably 'making a virtue of necessity'), while the 5E one is more selective and limited.

3rik · September 13, 2017, 07:53:31 PM

Quote from: Ulairi;991468Is it doing quite well? I don't know what we'd base that on.

I think we give it a few months and we see what happens with Paizo. I have read on Tenkar's blog that he heard that they were having financial issues and if they go tits up we'll know that Starfinder wasn't doing well.

Traditionally, scifi games have not sold as well as fantasy games. The strength of D&D 5E really hurt Pathfinder's sales.

OK, fair enough, the initial online fuzz about it gave me the impression a significant number of people were really eager to pick it up. That's only online, of course.

Dumarest · September 13, 2017, 08:14:08 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;991986I think Paizo's ultimate destiny is very similar to White Wolf's. They were huge because D&D was in a moment of weakness; now that moment has passed, and they will keep slowly but steadily eroding their market share as they march into irrelevance. How slowly depends on choices they make along the way.

Eh. Business fails, news at 11.

Justin Alexander · September 14, 2017, 06:21:07 AM

The person running this website is a racist who publicly advocates genocidal practices.

I am deleting my content.

I recommend you do the same.

fearsomepirate · September 14, 2017, 10:42:10 AM

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;992080IIRC, the 5E SRD is considerably less comprehensive than the 3.X and Pathfinder SRDs--the latter contain just about everything mechanical from the books they encompass (although in PF's case, that's probably 'making a virtue of necessity'), while the 5E one is more selective and limited.

The 5e SRD has every race + 1 subrace, every class + 1 archetype, ~90% of the monsters, and ~90% of the spells. Paizo gives away a lot more, obviously, but WotC has given away enough to do largely whatever you want.

TrippyHippy · September 14, 2017, 08:04:04 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit;991986I think Paizo's ultimate destiny is very similar to White Wolf's. They were huge because D&D was in a moment of weakness; now that moment has passed, and they will keep slowly but steadily eroding their market share as they march into irrelevance. How slowly depends on choices they make along the way.

Yes, to a degree (it's worth noting that White Wolf is still alive under new ownership, so we can assess how successful they are next year).

What Wolf did emerge as an alternative to TSR and co in the early 90s to address perceived weaknesses, in the same way Paizo did with D&D4. the difference however, is that White Wolf created an influential and lasting IP setting, whereas Pathfinder is still, essentially, a retro-clone set of D&D rules. White Wolf's IP will last as long as people taken interest in the setting ideas, for Pathfinder it's as long as people maintain interest in the rule-set.

Biscuitician · September 15, 2017, 04:14:36 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit;991986I think Paizo's ultimate destiny is very similar to White Wolf's. They were huge because D&D was in a moment of weakness; now that moment has passed, and they will keep slowly but steadily eroding their market share as they march into irrelevance. How slowly depends on choices they make along the way.

Do you hear yourself?

"ultimate destiny"?

Vampire wasn't succesful because people couldn't find a preferrable version of DnD to play instead. It was successfull because it appealed to a mood or a zeitgeist. You might not like the game, that's fine, but don't bullshit us.

WW aren't irrelevant. They have a product, you don't like it. That's not irrelevance.

Tetsubo · September 15, 2017, 08:05:54 AM

Quote from: Biscuitician;992547Do you hear yourself?

"ultimate destiny"?

Vampire wasn't succesful because people couldn't find a preferrable version of DnD to play instead. It was successfull because it appealed to a mood or a zeitgeist. You might not like the game, that's fine, but don't bullshit us.

WW aren't irrelevant. They have a product, you don't like it. That's not irrelevance.

WW has lots of products I don't have any use for. But I will not deny they are rather successful at finding folks that do have a use for them. Millions of them even. I don't even think they take my lack of interest personally.