Metamorphosis Alpha because lost generation colony ships are cool.
Blue Planet because this is hard SF done right.
Classic Traveller because both of the above could be rocking CT campaigns.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972056The choice for me is Classic Traveller. And by Classic Traveller I mean Traveller Books 1-3.

And Mongoose Traveller does all what you listed even better.

Quote from: DavetheLost;972210Blue Planet because this is hard SF done right.

Someone who believes hard SF exists. Interesting.

Hard SF as a genre exists. As a reality, no.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972228And Mongoose Traveller does all what you listed even better.

Actually, no it doesn't. For example MgT has a rigid task system and Classic Traveller explicitly does not. More specifically Classic Traveller's ad hoc Throw system is a feature I explicitly said I valued.

That's just one point. We could talk about how I find MgT's combat system more complicated than I need -- especially in contrast to Classic Traveller. But why bother? Let's stop while we already know your statement is utterly incorrect based on my first point alone.

But thanks for playing...

I liked both WEG Star Wars and Fading Suns. I thought about combining Bill Coffin's Septimus d6 rules with the Fading Suns setting, but never got around to it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;972195.I absolutely agree with you on the tremendous freedom granted by the LBBs, but there are multiple supplements for Classic Trav that can easily be ported into many original settings. Citizens of the Imperium (Supplement 4) really isn't about the Imperium, but just a book of new Trav classes (belters, barbarians, bureaucrats, hunters etc) and pre-rolled NPCs.

Oh, absolutely.

Listen, full disclosure: In my little Classic Traveller black box you will find hardcopies of:

• Book 0-An Introduction to Traveller
• Book 1-Characters and Combat
• Book 2-Starships
• Book 3-Worlds and Adventures
• Book 4-Mercenary
• Supplement 1-1001 Characters
• Supplement 2-Animal Encounters
• Supplement 4-Citizens of the Imperium[/I]

So it's not like I'm against using other materials. I use materials that make my life easier. Those books are a lovely range of material to work from. (For example, I use Book 4 for weapons... but not character creation.)

But I do focus on Books 1-3 in a discussion like this because:
a) I want to make it clear (any chance I get) that Books 1-3 are a complete game, designed to be a complete game, and you need nothing else
b) I get the feeling lots of folks (especially folks really buried Traveller material) don't always know the terrific RPG that is contained in those three books that is very different than their expectations and experience of the game if they know the game through later editions and/or piles of source books.

Second, I see Supplement 4-Citizens of the Imperium as a terrific expression of the promise of Books 1-3. That is, if someone looks at Book 1 and says, "Oh. That's all I can play?" And then looks at Supplement 4 and says, "Oh, that's great! But... wait... that's all I can play?" they are missing the possibilities of the game. Supplement 4 is an example of what to do with the original Traveller rules. (And I know you know this... but I'm making a point)...

In Supplement 12-Forms and Charts we find these two tables waiting for the Referee to fill them in:





Does the group want to be playing on Barsoom? You fill in Green Martian Warrior, Red Martian Warrior, Red Martian Nobility... and so on. Want to set up characters that make sense in Star Fleet? Dune? WWII Cthulhu Hunters? This is what I mean in my original post about the flexibility of the system. For me Supplement 4 is an illustration of what to do with Books 1-3, but not an end in and of itself.

Finally, I'm not crazy about all the skill creep that entered the game through various Books. Omer Joel makes the points I agree with in a great post here. Ultimately I think the logic of Book 1 in terms of skills (limited, not too narrow, nothing required to make play or encounters "work", and the expectation that most PCs won't be stocked with skill) is the best way to go. But that's me. I'm specifically harkening back to a style of play in Books 1-3. Which is why I use them as my foundation and pull things in after that carefully.

Anyone who knows me knows the games I like, and anyone who doesn't know me wouldn't care.

Quote from: Voros;972233Hard SF as a genre exists.

Really? Because both Clarke and Asimov said it was nonsensical to suggest such a thing.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972236Actually, no it doesn't. For example MgT has a rigid task system and Classic Traveller explicitly does not. More specifically Classic Traveller's ad hoc Throw system is a feature I explicitly said I valued.

I don't know what you're going on about. Mongoose Traveller has both Characteristic Checks and Skill Checks. It even has Boon and Bane rolls now. Far less restrictive than CT's (this is how you will do ADMIN rolls) system.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972236That's just one point. We could talk about how I find MgT's combat system more complicated than I need -- especially in contrast to Classic Traveller.

Classic Traveller uses the archaic "To-Hit" roll nonsense. Mongoose Traveller is a 2nd-Gen RPG.

Your stat block example. That is an NPC nowadays. And a poor one at that. And what's with the CT minus-sign-looking things after every skill name? Gun Combat-1. Mongoose is less confusing without the "-": Gun Combat 1.

Even Jack of All Trades is handled way better in Mongoose Traveller. Which means unskilled tasks are handled better. Mongoose doesn't use the matrix charts because it has normal 2nd-Gen rules which has armor meaning armor, hitting meaning hitting, etc.

If you don't want to debate, that's fine. Crushing Traveller 1.0 is too easy anyway.

They probably meant sf strictly based on known science. All sf is subgenre of fantasy in that regard. Hard sf as a stylistic approach sf clearly does exist.

Star Wars Edge of the Empire gets my vote. It's a cool system for dramatic high action scifi. The system works well, combat and action doesn't bog down too much and it's a tradition RPG with just a touch of story elements. Production values are high, there are enough add-on splat books, adventures, and supplements to give me more to read.

If we're talking generic, non-licensed scifi, I'd probably say MongTrav. Very generic, old-fashioned, traditional feel to it. Could easily run a Firefly or Dark Matter campaign. The main rulebook is easy to digest.

If out of print games are on the table, I'd pick Spacemaster 2e. The most fun game I've played. Plasma rifles and powered armor to mow down cocky pcs. What's not to love. And oh those critical tables were yummy.

Quote from: Voros;972254They probably meant sf strictly based on known science. All sf is subgenre of fantasy in that regard. Hard sf as a stylistic approach sf clearly does exist.

Riot! I read it on the Internet, so it's true. All of it.

What's hilarious that you don't know the Science Fiction Encylopedia but pretend to spout off on sf. It was a classic, written by Brian Stableford, Michael Moorcock, Peter Nicholls and John Clute long before it went online.

And if you had bothered to actually read it I think you would have found much to agree with but you're too busy trying to play forum tough guy like so many here...

My favorite sci-fi game is Star Frontiers, although I did run a fun campaign using Hero System's Robot Warrior game.

I'm curious, a friend bought What's Old is New. It looks good, we made some characters for it but haven't played yet. Has anyone tried it?

Well, Mechanoid Invasion Book III or possibly Buck Rogers XXVc. which is actually one of the hardest sf games ever to see print.  seriously

Star Cluster is pretty cool, but I like my own designs better and they'll all be done in a week or two, or so I've been saying for the last ten years.  I don't know, really there's a number of them I'd love to run, Cold Space in particular because who wouldn't want to run a James Bond campaign with FTL and alien worlds?  But I mostly run games I can sell at my store right now.  This is also a big issue with Traveller, Spacemaster, and GURPS right now though SJG may have finally got things so I can order print on demand from their webstore and get a retailer discount.  Anyhow, that's the problem with having a store, you have to run things that will make sales and make you money.  I'm pretty sure I've got guys who'd buy Anything In Harms Way if they could be directed to it.

Spacemaster Privateers is awesome but sadly unsupported and abandoned.  Oh, they'll sell you the books.  You might even be able to find the corrected vehicle attack tables that actually work.  But it's also an organizational nightmare with a setting that teases you but never got the books that would give it the depth to run a long term campaign.  Races and Cultures helps to put some flesh on the races but does little to answer all the nagging enigmas that will never be revealed.

Now, I'm a huge Traveller fan but there's never really been a good edition of Traveller.  CT is good if you have every supplement and can graft on better combat and vehicle rules and weapons from other supplements.  Mongoose Traveller grafted on D&D style attribute bonuses, initiative, and skill packages that make sure your group has all the right skills.  Talk about missing the point what a load of shit.  (okay so I'm a noisy idiot, I still hate Mongoose Traveller)  T5 should be perfect and beautiful but it's a mess and either isn't moving at all or is getting worse.  The people who can't see +9 to hit on 0 dice at close range as a system issue should not have been on the combat redesign committee.  So, I love Traveller but I've really lost hope.  I own every edition and several side versions.  So don't say Megatraveller or TNE man, I really liked a lot about TNE but there were too many things that just didn't work right in play.

So anyhow love Traveller but not favorite.

GURPS is good and bad as usual. You really have to spell it out to people.  You say "minor psionic abilities" they come back with Snatcher and Duplication.  sigh.  One day there will be a database edition that only prints out the things you're allowing.  Also, while Imperial really might be as good as Metric since we never really know if the standard 500 years from now will be the one from today, damnit!  Use Metric already.  Also 4th edition vehicle support isn't very good and scattered all over the place almost at random.  sf needs vehicles.

Love GURPS but not favorite for sf.

Playing in a Star Frontiers game for a couple months now, not fond of it.  Attributes don't even effect skills.  Might be annoyance a GM's arbitrary and unconsidered inability reconcile 1982 technology with 2017 technology.  Is my comm link a smart phone or not?  If things are retro tech please admit it and be consistent.  My character is a scientist, he should have some notion of what our technology is and isn't capable of beyond "I don't like you being able to do that so you can't"

But Mechanoid Invasion Book III is the Palladium system at it's very best.  Clean, fast and uncluttered.  No personal SDC.  No MDC.  Lots of cool guns, aliens, and robots.  Dead simple, big concept, not too much depth.  But of course, I can't really get it in stock or sell it, just Palladium's cluttered and broken mess of a game that doesn't resemble a 'system' in any sense I can understand.

Okay, rant mode off.  I love sf games but mine are very close to being done.  Not that naming your own games as your favorite is quite fair but there you go.