TheRPGSite

I have a feeling Traveller will win here. But let's see what theRPGsite members consider their favorite sci-fi RPG? And why?

The choice for me is Classic Traveller. And by Classic Traveller I mean Traveller Books 1-3. (I've been blogging extensively about Classic Traveller using only Books 1-3 for the last couple of years (https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/tag/traveller-out-of-the-box/).)

Why I like Classic Traveller might not be so obvious. Some reasons I've been thinking about lately:

STATE BLOCKS FOR NPCS AND ALIENS
Do you know how easy it is to stat an NPC in Classic Traveller? This easy:
5468A7. Rifle-0. Mechanical-1
Boom. That's crazy easy.
As someone who really wants to spend more time just making shit up with my friends in response to the ideas, plans, actions, and choices they throw at me.
I cannot overstate the brilliance of Marc Miller's design in this regard.

STAT BLOCKS FOR BEASTS
Sure, it's a bit more complicated, but watch this:
Gatherer 50kg Hits: 11/2 Armor: jack-1 Wounds: 7 teeth+1 Responses: A9 F8 S2
Still, sweet!

TERRIFIC PROCEDURAL GENERATION MATERIAL FOR THE REFEREE
The dense layer of procedural generation of Worlds, Encounters (NPCs, Animals, Legal, Patron), Encounter Range, and NPC Reaction lets me generate content on the fly and help me come up with new ideas, locals, and situations I would never come up with on my own.

THE SITUATION THROW SYSTEM
A preposterously straightforward but crazily flexible resolution system to handle any situation that the PCs get into that the Referee wants to hand off to the dice for adjudication.

• The scale is simple: a 2D6 bell curve. A Referee armed with a table showing the odds from 2-12 on 2D6 is good to go.
• The Die Modifiers are intuitive: +DMs for skills, high characteristics, tools, character history, or situational modifiers the Players come up with. The -DMs are just as simple.
• The trick is to take the system for what it is: A Referee driven simulation rather than a failed Skill System of later RPG design. But once you do that the game is excellent.

STRAIGHTFORWARD PLAYER CHARACTER DESIGN FOR MAKING ADVENTURERS
The game doesn't try to present you with every type of person from every walk of life that could exist in an interstellar setting. It's built to create characters who have the chops and the wherewithal and the focus to go on adventures in an adventure driven interstellar adventures.

The PCs can't do everything, of course. The character generation tables offer a limited set of skills, and PCs will only have a few of those per PC. But this means that if the PCs don't have the skill set available they will have to come up with adventure-driven schemes and shenanigans to keep going: steal the part they need to fix their ship because they don't know how to fabricate it; get to the professor of ancient languages held against his will on the estate of the noble to translate the alien tablet they found; sneak into the government building using a clever ruse because this group doesn't have someone with Computer skills; and so on.

IMPLIED, ADVENTURE-DRIVEN SETTING DETAILS
While the rules have implied setting details they do not provide a setting. This allows me to build the cool setting that I want. And as for the implied setting details, what are they? That the distances between the stars matters, communication is slow, tech levels will vary greatly, space travel between the stars is expensive, dangerous, and a big deal. What does this give us: Implied setting details that support exotic, novel, adventuring environments with lots of space and room for adventures to go get into trouble, take risks. The procedural driven setting generation material, along with the random encounter material, all define a setting ripe for adventure.

INCREDIBLY FLEXIBLE
Ultimately Classic Traveller at its core isn't limited to being a SF game. It is, instead, an awesome RPG engine with tools to build the setting you want and allows the Referee adjudicate clearly and the Players have an infinite latitude as to how handle problems and situations.

Want to use the rules to play a game set in WWII? You can do that. Want to use them to play cavemen? You can do that. Want to use them to play modern day Cthulhu? Why not? All one needs to do is come up with rebuilt character creation tables and you are good to go. (For the CoC you'll want some sort of mechanic for insanity or insights or whatnot... but you're a grownup. You can figure it out.)

Remember that the Psionics rules are a template for anything from Psionics, to magic spells, to magic weapons, to alien or monsters effects. Combined with the rules for Drugs (as well as the flexible weapons and armor rules) one can mix and match the rules to reproduce the effects of everything from cyberware to trans-human bioengineering. This flexibility allows a Referee to create truly alien SF worlds and technology in the standard "Science-Fiction Adventure in the Far Future" play mode... or use the game (as mentioned above) for completely different settings shorn of all SF trappings.

Classic Traveller is one of the most pure iterations of RPG play and design that I have ever seen. The fact that most people don't (or can't) see the game for what it is strikes me as odd. But that doesn't change how amazing the game is.

Traveller is the best. Classic is the most significant in terms of design history, with Mongoose Traveller the most accessible for a modern audience (and a variety of good settings, including Mindjammer and 2300AD). Versatile, elegant system, easy to pick up and play but retains a nice sense of physical realism in its world design. Lots and lots of support and still the seminal sci-fi game that many have imitated since.

Other sci-fi games I like:

Paranoia
Space 1889
Cyberpunk 2020
Mutant: Year Zero
Star Wars (the WEG version)
Eclipse Phase (in certain doses anyway; other times I find it a bit overbearing).
Over The Edge - actually very good at doing Phillip K Dick stuff.
HoL: Human Occupied Landfill
Doctor Who RPG

Classic Traveller for me as well... all the more so for having reading ChristopherKubasik's bloggings regarding it over the past while, which have revitalized my interest in its earliest form.

Unless I want to make a case for Call of Cthulhu as a science fiction game, which it kindasorta is... but like a lot of other scifi games I like, it's not as open-ended in that spacefaring direction.

Star Frontiers: Still my go-to for a great SF RPG, especially once you add in starships with Knight Hawks.

Albedo: A fairly hard fiction RPG with a rather unforgiving combat system. Great for its War is Hell theme that runs throughout. But also can make for viable espionage, and other themes.

Universe: Still fond of this one. I like to use the star system generator system from it for Star Frontiers.

The one, the only: Classic Traveller.

Classic Traveller is my favorite.

However, if I had just gotten into gaming and discovered both MongTrav and Stars Without Number, I would probably go SWN.

I've also had great fun with lots with Rifts: Phase World and Mechanoids (Invasion & Homeworld).

Quote from: Omega;972085Star Frontiers: Still my go-to for a great SF RPG, especially once you add in starships with Knight Hawks.

Please start a thread on Star Frontiers, especially what you've been doing with it. I love the races, but I found the system wonky.

SF Games I actually GM'd a lot of (ca 1988-1991):

WEG d6 Star Wars 1st edition
PARANOIA

Unfortunately I've not GM'd or played much SF since then (bit of Traveller The New Era, bit of Mutant Future); I spend nearly all my time running various versions of D&D.
SF Games I would love to run/play:

White Star
Mini-Six, space opera setting

[Plug warning] Like a broken record I'm going to say Icar (http://www.icar.co.uk) because I wrote it and it is inextricably woven into the fabric of my life and friends. I always like the version that I'm writing at any one time.

I like Paranoia, I played the original to death with all the source books. I have the new one too, read not played. I've always enjoyed the humour and the situations that the players get themselves into.

The only other one I really like is SLA Industries. It's so dark and gritty while having some silliness to it.

I like classic Traveler for sure... I think it was the third game that I ever played (after D&D and Call of Cthulhu).

I think my favorites are (in no particular order):

The Void - Lovecraftian horror meets Dead Space. Relatively low tech for a sci-fi game. That is to say, there are no Warp drives. So, everything takes place in our solar system (or just beyond). The rules are a die pool but they are elegant.
SLA Industries - Bitchin' setting one of the most original. Pity the system is krud.
D6 Space (nice generic ruleset).
Cold & Dark - I like this probably for the same reasons as the Void. A Nice oppressive atmosphere with a sense of dread. But there is FTL travel.
Savage Worlds Slipstream - Basically Flash Gorden with the serial numbers filed off. Although a much cooler setting.
Starseige Event Horizon - a Great little toolkit for building your own Sci-Fi stuff. Uses the same engine as Castles & Crusades (which I like).

A trifecta of Traveller, WEG Star Wars, and Mekton are my favorites. I feel that these three games emulate their genres incredibly well, so well that they are gaming cornerstones. Traveller has the play of written science fiction that I grew up reading. WEG Star Wars has the roots of the Star Wars franchise in its very DNA and is an easy to learn intuitive system to boot. Mekton gives me my Anime/Manga mecha fix with all of the things that I love best from that genre.

Favorite: D6 Space/WEG Star Wars-First system I ever played so there's nostalgia and familiarity, plus I think it's pretty elegant, and very easy to teach.

Second Favorite: Stars Without Number-Capitalizes on my familiarity with D&D, and provides many tools with which to build a setting and plan adventures.

Honorable Mentions: X-Plorers and Tales of the Space Princess, the former because it also works with my familiarity with D&D and is even simpler/lighter than SWN, the latter because it's just different enough from D&D to scratch a different itch, and I really just love John's writing style.

Cyberpunk 2020 - In its time and place, relative to my own interests at that time, the game and its mechanics were a complete revelation for me. It's kinetic, "no holds barred" assumptions, the themes, it's one of those games whose conceits completely encapsulated the good and the bad of the genre it was portraying. Being a murder-hobo in CP2020 never felt so good, but never lasted very long. It taught my players to be more tactical *and* strategic not just in combat, but in social aspects of the game. It taught them the implicit values of working together despite their character differences of outlook. It made them *better* players.

Take this in context with the first sentence.

Edit: And the system, while it's aged and could use some pruning and tweaking, it still rocks mightily.

Traveller lite, I mean Thousand Suns. I have not played it though, but based on read I really want to one day. It represents real classic sci-fi to me, that I have read from the great classics - and with minimal rules burden. I wish there were more adventures for it, but I'm sure I can steal them from Traveller.

Traveller. My current iteration of choice is Mongoose 1st, for:
1) skill system - easy to use but goes beyond the ad hoc nature of CT's.
2) chargen - provides a wide variety of options with just-right detail lifepath without the unbalanced zaniness of the CT and MT enhanced systems
3) support/setting. Still fundamentally the same system as CT, so I can plug into decades of material people have been churning out for it.
4) gritty edge. I like sf settings that aren't just space fantasy with no regard for harsh realities.

Though it should be said, I don't see Traveller as the ideal sf game. If someone marketed a game that had as good a system but a notch better realism (say 3d starmaps and no assumption of patently implausible gravitics), I'd switch over.

I would argue that Traveller is not science fiction. It's generic adventure for any government or tech level world. Most Traveller games, when you watch them on YouTube, are played more like episodes of The A-Team or Galactica '80.

FFG is winning the best sci-fi RPG contest because Star Wars invented sci-fi for Happy-Meal(TM)-eating man-babies after all.

At least until Starfinder comes out. Every fat neckbeard here will buy it all up pretty much.

It would depend on what I want to do. If I'm making up my  own setting, Traveller '77 is the one. But sometimes I like to play FASA Star Trek (either edition but I'd prefer 1st) or West End Games Star Wars (1st edition).

Why? Well, I know the rules for Traveller and I like the feel of it, including the slow communication between star systems and how it affects the setting. I'm also a fan of a lot of the science fiction Traveller was written to emulate. I already own a lot of the books so there's no need to spend any money if I play it. The only downside is a lot of younger players think sci fi means Star Wars mysticism and laser swords and aliens on every street corner and I have to disabuse them of the notion (although I could easily include that stuff in a Traveller game if I liked it).

FASA Star Trek works just fine for me and I like the random rolling of your PC's prior career and skills acquired. The optional starship combat game is pretty fun, too.

WEG Star Wars does exactly what it needs to do and has everything I need to run a game forever in the 1st edition and its sourcebook. It also takes about 5 minutes to each a new player the rules, create characters, and start a game.

My favorite Sci-fi games, currently:

1.) Stars Without Number: The current Revised Edition Beta is moving even further into my happy zone with solid hacking rules, a cooler starship combat system, and more flexible character creation that still keeps an overall stripped down vibe. Even though it has an old school D&D base, this game, especially in the direction it's headed, manages to still make me feel like I'm playing Sci-fi and not some warmed over "Dungeons in Space" vibe I was afraid it would provide when I first heard of it. While it is primarily aimed at that Golden Age sci-fi area, rules for mechs, some cyberwear, and psychic business give it the tools to branch out into most sci-fi. It feels like Crawford has taken any given system you might expect or want in a sci-fi game, and provided it at the minimum complexity required to get surprisingly diverse results. I've wanted to love Traveller, but SWN maintains top position.

2.) Heavy Gear 2nd Edition/Jovian Chronicles: I miss the old Dream Pod 9. These games combine a miniatures game with a real tech/geek mecha anime vibe that hits a lot of good notes. While Heavy Gear feels more wedded to its setting, Jovian Chronicles works well as a pretty general Sci-fi game, especially if you decide to strip out the giant robots, which doesn't feel like a weird thing to do. If you take the giant robots out of the Jovian Chronicles, the setting is basically "The Expanse", if you dig those books/that TV show. If you are a gearhead type, maybe the best games ever. I love all of the vehicles and the vehicle design system.

3.) WEG Star Wars: It's simple, it's evocative, it works. There may be a bit of nostalgia here for me too. I think of it as a good Star Wars system, but not necessarily a good general sci-fi system. The books were just good at being evocative of the setting, and the rules were easy enough to encourage the kind of free-wheeling action you expect out of classic Star Wars.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972137I would argue that Traveller is not science fiction. It's generic adventure for any government or tech level world. Most Traveller games, when you watch them on YouTube, are played more like episodes of The A-Team or Galactica '80.

How people play a game and what the game can be are two different things.

I can't say you are wrong about how you observe lots of folks playing Traveller. But that is mostly a function of GDW's OTU and the adventures created for the Classic Traveller line. GDW focused on a specifically "conservative" sensibility for their product line. (In a recent interview Miller commented specifically on this stating they wanted a setting where all players picking up the material could feel comfortable in the setting and that the setting should not have anything too weird about it). The OTU and the GDW adventures are one expression of a setting and style of play of the game -- but hardly the only one.

But for my reply I specifically referred to Classic Traveller Books 1-3. Which means no setting, no published adventures. The Referee has the tools and freedom to make any kind of exotic and SF-driven setting he wants.

That people choose to ignore this and play "Just like today but in space" isn't a function of the game -- but how people are choosing to use the game.

I should add that you might be using "Science Fiction" in a very specific or even narrow sense that cuts out decades of SF writing. Classic Traveller was written from the inspiration of adventure driven SF from the 40s through the mid-70s (Norton, Piper, Anderson, Vance, Tubb, and others). This isn't the "Hard SF" beloved by so many today where you take an odd scientific premise and drill all the way down to construct a thought experiment disguised as a story. Instead it is the tradition of SF as exotic tale with fanciful SF plots and devices providing plot shenanigans and local in the place of fairies and djin.

If you think SF is only "Hard SF" (and I'm not saying you are) then there's not much to say. You would be faulting the game for it being what it wasn't designed to be -- and a lot of SF tales as well.

But that said -- if one wants to use the Classic Traveller rules for a Hard SF scenario there is no reason one can't. Nothing in the rules will stop you. And -- again -- the flexibility of the rules will support you.

My favorite sci fi RPG is GURPS Space, in a homebrew setting, because it's GURPS, has a non-pile-o-hitpoints tactical combat system, and will be a homebrew setting (assuming the GM does a good job and runs something I like).

Classic Traveller for all the reasons Christopher Kubasik mentioned.

Frank

Hard to pick a favorite. I'm pretty equally fond of Traveller (Classic or MegaTraveller), Blue Planet v2, Star Frontiers, Heavy Gear, and Jovian Chronicles.

I forgot all about Star Frontiers. I think I may have played Star Frontiers before I played Traveller. I remember a neighbor had Alpha Dawn (was that the name of the RPG boxed set?) and there was some kind of city map and little square markers to represent your PC on the map. I think we also played the space fighter jet combat game as well (was it called Space Hawks?) but not nearly as much. I liked the extraterrestrials as none were just "upright cats with opposable thumbs" as we often see in science fiction.

I have a soft spot for Star Frontiers. Good, fun game. But my older sister's boyfriend gave me his boxed set of Traveller and that quickly became one of my all-time favorite RPGs.

WEG Star Wars. It's the one I've played the most and know the best.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972137I would argue that Traveller is not science fiction. It's generic adventure for any government or tech level world. Most Traveller games, when you watch them on YouTube, are played more like episodes of The A-Team or Galactica '80.

FFG is winning the best sci-fi RPG contest because Star Wars invented sci-fi for Happy-Meal(TM)-eating man-babies after all.

At least until Starfinder comes out. Every fat neckbeard here will buy it all up pretty much.

LOL! Good point. What makes a sci-fi game? More specifically, sci-fi adventure. Star Wars is basically fantasy in space.

I actually quite like the idea of Ashen Stars - investigative game in space. I'm not a fan of GUMSHOE system, but the adventures should be quite what I would look for from sci-fi game. Even good Dr. Asimov even wrote his robot series as crime-mystery stories.

My favorite would be the 1992 edition of Gamma World. Yea I know it's a post-apocalyptic setting. But it has rules that can be adapted to all sorts of things. Need aliens? Robots? Weird plants that control minds? All right there.

Cyberpunk 2020 and Star Frontiers are also solid options for 'classic' games. Stars Without Number and The Mutant Epoch for more current material. I love how SWN handles psionics.

Quote from: jux;972186What makes a sci-fi game? More specifically, sci-fi adventure. Star Wars is basically fantasy in space.

This is why I usually refer to Star Wars as science fantasy. You want a representation of science fiction? Go read and watch The Martian

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972137I would argue that Traveller is not science fiction.

.

Of course you would.

Next up, D&D is not fantasy.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972137FFG is winning the best sci-fi RPG contest because Star Wars invented sci-fi for Happy-Meal(TM)-eating man-babies after all.

And this folks is why I love it when Shawn posts.

That is awesome.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972145But for my reply I specifically referred to Classic Traveller Books 1-3. Which means no setting, no published adventures. The Referee has the tools and freedom to make any kind of exotic and SF-driven setting he wants.

I absolutely agree with you on the tremendous freedom granted by the LBBs, but there are multiple supplements for Classic Trav that can easily be ported into many original settings. Citizens of the Imperium (Supplement 4) really isn't about the Imperium, but just a book of new Trav classes (belters, barbarians, bureaucrats, hunters etc) and pre-rolled NPCs.

Quote from: Tetsubo;972191My favorite would be the 1992 edition of Gamma World. Yea I know it's a post-apocalyptic setting. But it has rules that can be adapted to all sorts of things. Need aliens? Robots? Weird plants that control minds? All right there.

True. I feel the same way about GW 1e. I used those rules to run a 40k RPG campaign when the original Rogue Trader came out. It was awesome fun. The mutant rules were everything I needed to duplicate psionics, demon magic and alien abilities. And the powered armor rules did fine to create Space Marines, Terminators and Dreadnoughts.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972137I would argue that Traveller is not science fiction. It's generic adventure for any government or tech level world. Most Traveller games, when you watch them on YouTube, are played more like episodes of The A-Team or Galactica '80.

FFG is winning the best sci-fi RPG contest because Star Wars invented sci-fi for Happy-Meal(TM)-eating man-babies after all.

At least until Starfinder comes out. Every fat neckbeard here will buy it all up pretty much.

Someone's gallbladder is producing too much bile again.  Or else the piles are acting up.

A couple of scifi favorites for me. I don't want to count homebrew stuff, only games commercially produced, and in pretty much every case I like the first version put out over later revisions.

(1) Metamorphosis Alpha (1E) because it's scifi with the creepy "crawling through a broken ship" vibe to it.

(2) Classic Traveller (the black books) because it's pretty generic and can be used for pretty much any scifi setting.

(3) WEG Star Wars because of the topic and the fact that the d6 system is pretty easy to run.

Metamorphosis Alpha because lost generation colony ships are cool.
Blue Planet because this is hard SF done right.
Classic Traveller because both of the above could be rocking CT campaigns.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972056The choice for me is Classic Traveller. And by Classic Traveller I mean Traveller Books 1-3.

And Mongoose Traveller does all what you listed even better.

Quote from: DavetheLost;972210Blue Planet because this is hard SF done right.

Someone who believes hard SF exists. Interesting.

Hard SF as a genre exists. As a reality, no.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972228And Mongoose Traveller does all what you listed even better.

Actually, no it doesn't. For example MgT has a rigid task system and Classic Traveller explicitly does not. More specifically Classic Traveller's ad hoc Throw system is a feature I explicitly said I valued.

That's just one point. We could talk about how I find MgT's combat system more complicated than I need -- especially in contrast to Classic Traveller. But why bother? Let's stop while we already know your statement is utterly incorrect based on my first point alone.

But thanks for playing...

I liked both WEG Star Wars and Fading Suns. I thought about combining Bill Coffin's Septimus d6 rules with the Fading Suns setting, but never got around to it.

Quote from: Spinachcat;972195.I absolutely agree with you on the tremendous freedom granted by the LBBs, but there are multiple supplements for Classic Trav that can easily be ported into many original settings. Citizens of the Imperium (Supplement 4) really isn't about the Imperium, but just a book of new Trav classes (belters, barbarians, bureaucrats, hunters etc) and pre-rolled NPCs.

Oh, absolutely.

Listen, full disclosure: In my little Classic Traveller black box you will find hardcopies of:

• Book 0-An Introduction to Traveller
• Book 1-Characters and Combat
• Book 2-Starships
• Book 3-Worlds and Adventures
• Book 4-Mercenary
• Supplement 1-1001 Characters
• Supplement 2-Animal Encounters
• Supplement 4-Citizens of the Imperium[/I]

So it's not like I'm against using other materials. I use materials that make my life easier. Those books are a lovely range of material to work from. (For example, I use Book 4 for weapons... but not character creation.)

But I do focus on Books 1-3 in a discussion like this because:
a) I want to make it clear (any chance I get) that Books 1-3 are a complete game, designed to be a complete game, and you need nothing else
b) I get the feeling lots of folks (especially folks really buried Traveller material) don't always know the terrific RPG that is contained in those three books that is very different than their expectations and experience of the game if they know the game through later editions and/or piles of source books.

Second, I see Supplement 4-Citizens of the Imperium as a terrific expression of the promise of Books 1-3. That is, if someone looks at Book 1 and says, "Oh. That's all I can play?" And then looks at Supplement 4 and says, "Oh, that's great! But... wait... that's all I can play?" they are missing the possibilities of the game. Supplement 4 is an example of what to do with the original Traveller rules. (And I know you know this... but I'm making a point)...

In Supplement 12-Forms and Charts we find these two tables waiting for the Referee to fill them in:

(https://talestoastound.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/screen-shot-2017-06-29-at-5-51-49-pm.png)

(https://talestoastound.files.wordpress.com/2017/06/screen-shot-2017-06-29-at-5-52-04-pm.png)

Does the group want to be playing on Barsoom? You fill in Green Martian Warrior, Red Martian Warrior, Red Martian Nobility... and so on. Want to set up characters that make sense in Star Fleet? Dune? WWII Cthulhu Hunters? This is what I mean in my original post about the flexibility of the system. For me Supplement 4 is an illustration of what to do with Books 1-3, but not an end in and of itself.

Finally, I'm not crazy about all the skill creep that entered the game through various Books. Omer Joel makes the points I agree with in a great post here (http://infinitestarsmagazine.blogspot.co.il/2013/02/a-less-travelled-road-three-creeps.html). Ultimately I think the logic of Book 1 in terms of skills (limited, not too narrow, nothing required to make play or encounters "work", and the expectation that most PCs won't be stocked with skill) is the best way to go. But that's me. I'm specifically harkening back to a style of play in Books 1-3. Which is why I use them as my foundation and pull things in after that carefully.

Anyone who knows me knows the games I like, and anyone who doesn't know me wouldn't care. :P

Quote from: Voros;972233Hard SF as a genre exists.

Really? Because both Clarke and Asimov said it was nonsensical to suggest such a thing.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972236Actually, no it doesn't. For example MgT has a rigid task system and Classic Traveller explicitly does not. More specifically Classic Traveller's ad hoc Throw system is a feature I explicitly said I valued.

I don't know what you're going on about. Mongoose Traveller has both Characteristic Checks and Skill Checks. It even has Boon and Bane rolls now. Far less restrictive than CT's (this is how you will do ADMIN rolls) system.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972236That's just one point. We could talk about how I find MgT's combat system more complicated than I need -- especially in contrast to Classic Traveller.

Classic Traveller uses the archaic "To-Hit" roll nonsense. Mongoose Traveller is a 2nd-Gen RPG.

Your stat block example. That is an NPC nowadays. And a poor one at that. And what's with the CT minus-sign-looking things after every skill name? Gun Combat-1. Mongoose is less confusing without the "-": Gun Combat 1.

Even Jack of All Trades is handled way better in Mongoose Traveller. Which means unskilled tasks are handled better. Mongoose doesn't use the matrix charts because it has normal 2nd-Gen rules which has armor meaning armor, hitting meaning hitting, etc.

If you don't want to debate, that's fine. Crushing Traveller 1.0 is too easy anyway.

They probably meant sf strictly based on known science. All sf is subgenre of fantasy in that regard. Hard sf as a stylistic approach sf clearly does exist. (http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/hard_sf)

Star Wars Edge of the Empire gets my vote. It's a cool system for dramatic high action scifi. The system works well, combat and action doesn't bog down too much and it's a tradition RPG with just a touch of story elements. Production values are high, there are enough add-on splat books, adventures, and supplements to give me more to read.

If we're talking generic, non-licensed scifi, I'd probably say MongTrav. Very generic, old-fashioned, traditional feel to it. Could easily run a Firefly or Dark Matter campaign. The main rulebook is easy to digest.

If out of print games are on the table, I'd pick Spacemaster 2e. The most fun game I've played. Plasma rifles and powered armor to mow down cocky pcs. What's not to love. And oh those critical tables were yummy.

Quote from: Voros;972254They probably meant sf strictly based on known science. All sf is subgenre of fantasy in that regard. Hard sf as a stylistic approach sf clearly does exist. (http://www.sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/hard_sf)

Riot! I read it on the Internet, so it's true. All of it.

What's hilarious that you don't know the Science Fiction Encylopedia but pretend to spout off on sf. It was a classic, written by Brian Stableford, Michael Moorcock, Peter Nicholls and John Clute long before it went online.

And if you had bothered to actually read it I think you would have found much to agree with but you're too busy trying to play forum tough guy like so many here...

My favorite sci-fi game is Star Frontiers, although I did run a fun campaign using Hero System's Robot Warrior game.

I'm curious, a friend bought What's Old is New. It looks good, we made some characters for it but haven't played yet. Has anyone tried it?

Well, Mechanoid Invasion Book III or possibly Buck Rogers XXVc. which is actually one of the hardest sf games ever to see print.  seriously

Star Cluster is pretty cool, but I like my own designs better and they'll all be done in a week or two, or so I've been saying for the last ten years.  I don't know, really there's a number of them I'd love to run, Cold Space in particular because who wouldn't want to run a James Bond campaign with FTL and alien worlds?  But I mostly run games I can sell at my store right now.  This is also a big issue with Traveller, Spacemaster, and GURPS right now though SJG may have finally got things so I can order print on demand from their webstore and get a retailer discount.  Anyhow, that's the problem with having a store, you have to run things that will make sales and make you money.  I'm pretty sure I've got guys who'd buy Anything In Harms Way if they could be directed to it.

Spacemaster Privateers is awesome but sadly unsupported and abandoned.  Oh, they'll sell you the books.  You might even be able to find the corrected vehicle attack tables that actually work.  But it's also an organizational nightmare with a setting that teases you but never got the books that would give it the depth to run a long term campaign.  Races and Cultures helps to put some flesh on the races but does little to answer all the nagging enigmas that will never be revealed.

Now, I'm a huge Traveller fan but there's never really been a good edition of Traveller.  CT is good if you have every supplement and can graft on better combat and vehicle rules and weapons from other supplements.  Mongoose Traveller grafted on D&D style attribute bonuses, initiative, and skill packages that make sure your group has all the right skills.  Talk about missing the point what a load of shit.  (okay so I'm a noisy idiot, I still hate Mongoose Traveller)  T5 should be perfect and beautiful but it's a mess and either isn't moving at all or is getting worse.  The people who can't see +9 to hit on 0 dice at close range as a system issue should not have been on the combat redesign committee.  So, I love Traveller but I've really lost hope.  I own every edition and several side versions.  So don't say Megatraveller or TNE man, I really liked a lot about TNE but there were too many things that just didn't work right in play.

So anyhow love Traveller but not favorite.

GURPS is good and bad as usual. You really have to spell it out to people.  You say "minor psionic abilities" they come back with Snatcher and Duplication.  sigh.  One day there will be a database edition that only prints out the things you're allowing.  Also, while Imperial really might be as good as Metric since we never really know if the standard 500 years from now will be the one from today, damnit!  Use Metric already.  Also 4th edition vehicle support isn't very good and scattered all over the place almost at random.  sf needs vehicles.

Love GURPS but not favorite for sf.

Playing in a Star Frontiers game for a couple months now, not fond of it.  Attributes don't even effect skills.  Might be annoyance a GM's arbitrary and unconsidered inability reconcile 1982 technology with 2017 technology.  Is my comm link a smart phone or not?  If things are retro tech please admit it and be consistent.  My character is a scientist, he should have some notion of what our technology is and isn't capable of beyond "I don't like you being able to do that so you can't"

But Mechanoid Invasion Book III is the Palladium system at it's very best.  Clean, fast and uncluttered.  No personal SDC.  No MDC.  Lots of cool guns, aliens, and robots.  Dead simple, big concept, not too much depth.  But of course, I can't really get it in stock or sell it, just Palladium's cluttered and broken mess of a game that doesn't resemble a 'system' in any sense I can understand.

Okay, rant mode off.  I love sf games but mine are very close to being done.  Not that naming your own games as your favorite is quite fair but there you go.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972253Far less restrictive than CT's (this is how you will do ADMIN rolls) system.

That's... not how Classic Traveller works. The skills descriptions are guidelines -- not restrictive in any way.

I am beginning to suspect you don't know what you're talking about.

1: Stars Without number.  I've been running it for some years now and I still love it.   It has a load of depth. Huge amounts of background material, much of it free.
Now 2nd edition is coming up, it looks like I'll be liking it even more.
I also use Other Dust with it for the Post Apocalyptic stuff and Silent Legions for the Horror aspects I use in the game.

2: Space Master (not Privateers) .  I loved the crits, stories, the setting, skill system etc..      

Regarding Traveller... I WANTED to like it, but I really don't like the D6 system it uses or the setting really (I have played it several times with different DMs).
I get it's the Grand Daddy of Scifi though and I DO realise SWN takes a lot from Traveller, but for me I just prefer the SWN takes on Scifi.

For me:

1. GURPS, w/Space and Starships: ticks all the boxes for me, I can run it in my sleep, and I LIKE being forced to decide all the stuff (I like going through the skill lists to figure out what is and isn't groovy; same for Ads/Disads).

2. Classic/Mongoose Traveller: as others have already said. I tend to mash the two up anyways these days.

3. Burning Empires: ran my absolute best, most successful campaign in it. The tight focus is really, really something. If I can get my current group there...one day, one day again...

It funny about the debate between Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller emerging here. Our group, who have been playing Mongoose Traveller for a while, had an addition of a new player a couple of months ago or so that turned up with his Classic Traveller book and insisted on playing with it's rules. This was even with everybody else around him, and myself running the game, running with Mongoose rules.

It was slightly disruptive as I think he was on an evangelical mission to convert us all and he occasionally tried to push in game decisions onto the rest of the group, etc. But anyway, we managed to keep it going for a surprisingly long while (he ooh'd and ahh'd at my own Classic collection, including a 1977 Traveller box in pristine condition), before he eventually left the group to go back to board gaming or something.

The games are definitely different in certain aspects, but they still mostly mesh in my own experience with a degree of flexibility on the part of the referee.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;972277It funny about the debate between Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller emerging here. Our group, who have been playing Mongoose Traveller for a while, had an addition of a new player a couple of months ago or so that turned up with his Classic Traveller book and insisted on playing with it's rules. This was even with everybody else around him, and myself running the game, running with Mongoose rules.

It was slightly disruptive...

That it was only slightly disruptive points to you being a kind and patient soul. I don't know how I'd respond to someone showing up with that kind of behavior.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972253If you don't want to debate, that's fine. Crushing Traveller 1.0 is too easy anyway.

Why do you have to piss on other games? So you prefer a more "modern" system. Some of us are exploring the original games, and discovering that actually they are very fine games. New is not always so much better that it must sweep out all the old.

I'm sure Mongoose Traveller is a very nice game, and I'm glad it's out there (and it's certainly a bonus that it was released with OGL so something like Cepheus Engine could also be published), and I'm not surprised it gets about the same number of votes for Traveller versions on Citizens of the Imperium, but it's also very interesting that the only other version that gets a significant number of votes is "other/hybrid". And I have a copy, and I've borrowed from it.

But as Christopher says, I LIKE all those things that he has pointed out about Classic Traveller. I have gone the path of universal resolution systems, and in the end, I have often found them bland. Far better to have resolution systems that may be just a bit quirky here and there. I have also really found skill bloat to detract from a SF game. It's too easy to fall into a trap of trying to characterize everything as a skill, but it's an impossible task. There's no way you could completely define a real person in a set of skills. So Classic Traveller's short list of broad skills that helps create a focus of "this is what this game is about" and "this is where this character shines" makes for an interesting game for me.

Frank

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972249Really? Because both Clarke and Asimov said it was nonsensical to suggest such a thing.

And Clarke and Asimov are the exclusive, definitive and infallible oracles of SF? Asimov was a pompous, conceited ass.

Wasn't the question "What is your favorite RPG? And why?"

My favorite RPG has nothing to do with RPG's I *don't* like. Much less making aspersions about those that DO like those games. Calling people "man-babies" (which I admit I kinda chuckle at the idea of grown men in diapers, shitting themselves with pacifiers... oddly with those old "bonnets" they used to put on babies, kinda hilarious. But now I realize this is getting weird) - for liking something you don't, seems silly at best. I'll go with that.

I never realized the Nerdzerkers had made it to SPAAAACE!

The Traveller Nerdzerker Wars begun they have!

I forgot all about Buck Roger 25c. Lovely lovely lovely game!

CP2020 for me, as far as favorites go.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972243Listen, full disclosure: In my little Classic Traveller black box you will find hardcopies of:

• Book 0-An Introduction to Traveller
• Book 1-Characters and Combat
• Book 2-Starships
• Book 3-Worlds and Adventures
• Book 4-Mercenary
• Supplement 1-1001 Characters
• Supplement 2-Animal Encounters
• Supplement 4-Citizens of the Imperium[/I]
  

That is almost exactly the contents of my box; you just need to take out Book 0 and include 76 Patrons. I also only use Book 4 for additional equipment I may need.

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;972256Riot! I read it on the Internet, so it's true. All of it.

Right, that would be as silly as saying Isaac Asimov said it, therefore it's true.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972261That's... not how Classic Traveller works. The skills descriptions are guidelines -- not restrictive in any way.

I am beginning to suspect you don't know what you're talking about.

You're being too generous. He clearly has no idea what he's writing about. Just wait for the "real roleplayers" and "real RPGs" nonsense he'll pull out from where the sun don't shine.

Quote from: danskmacabre;972262Regarding Traveller... I WANTED to like it, but I really don't like the D6 system it uses or the setting really (I have played it several times with different DMs).

I understand you might not like the dice-rolling method it uses, but Traveller doesn't come with a setting. Do you mean the optional 3rd Imperium?

Quote from: tenbones;972307The Traveller Nerdzerker Wars begun they have!

It isn't a war if only one man is wailing at people who have no concern about what game he plays and don't denigrate the games he prefers.

Quote from: tenbones;972307Wasn't the question "What is your favorite RPG? And why?"

My favorite RPG has nothing to do with RPG's I *don't* like.

This is the Internet. Anytime anyone says he likes something, someone else has to tell the first person how stupid he is and how what he likes is crap. ;)

Quote from: ffilz;972301Why do you have to piss on other games?

It's the only way he gets any attention. He has nothing insightful to post even about games he claims to play. Therefore, in desperation, he seeks attention by posting little snotty remarks about games he doesn't play or understand. And it works! And so it continues...

Not having any actual-play experience with Traveller I'm going to go with HardNova II (http://www.pigames.net/store/default.php?cPath=32).

Quote from: Dumarest;972318This is the Internet. Anytime anyone says he likes something, someone else has to tell the first person how stupid he is and how what he likes is crap. ;)

It is weird how the number of things that can be liked is a zero-sum game for many people on the Internet.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972329It is weird how the number of things that can be liked is a zero-sum game for many people on the Internet.

It's the downside of anonymity combined with instant communication about any topic. I very much doubt 99% of us would be so contemptibly obnoxious  if we were all in the same room.

Quote from: Dumarest;972342It's the downside of anonymity combined with instant communication about any topic. I very much doubt 99% of us would be so contemptibly obnoxious  if we were all in the same room.

Oh, no, there was contempt of different gaming interests and play styles way back then also...

Frank

Quote from: ffilz;972345Oh, no, there was contempt of different gaming interests and play styles way back then also...

Frank

Yes, but were they shouting vitriol in each other's faces in an enclosed space? Or would that have ended up with someone taking a beating, unlike online.

Quote from: Dumarest;972347Yes, but were they shouting vitriol in each other's faces in an enclosed space? Or would that have ended up with someone taking a beating, unlike online.

Oh, there was shouting in peoples faces.

The biggest difference between the old days and the internet these days is effectively the number of people in the room...

Frank

Quote from: Dumarest;972342It's the downside of anonymity combined with instant communication about any topic. I very much doubt 99% of us would be so contemptibly obnoxious  if we were all in the same room.

In my experience a helluva lot of Traveller players acted exactly that way when they were in the room. That's why I stopped wasting my time trying to play Traveller many years ago.

Wrote my own SF setting, and now that's my favorite SF RPG by default. I'm biased, of course, but I created the game I wanted to play. Who wouldn't?

You guys must have played with some incredibly irritating and contemptible people. I've never had to scream, shout, or even stamp my feet over an RPG.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;972358In my experience a helluva lot of Traveller players acted exactly that way when they were in the room. That's why I stopped wasting my time trying to play Traveller many years ago.

Wrote my own SF setting, and now that's my favorite SF RPG by default. I'm biased, of course, but I created the game I wanted to play. Who wouldn't?

The weird thing about original Traveller was that it was built as a toolkit for people to build the cool setting they wanted. But somehow it took a turn and became a cesspit of people yelling at each other about getting the setting "right." (I missed most of that when I realized the game had become the Third Imperium and stepped away. My interest in pulling out my original Traveller rules is recent.)

Xavier, what rules do you use for your setting?

I'm a massive fan of Classic Traveller.
I used Gurps for a lot of sci-fi related rpg sessions.
I think Star Frontiers was a poorly executed but nonetheless inspiring game.
I feel like I should mention Shadowrun while also admitting it's probably too "tainted" with fantasy to count.
Cyberpunk was a blast to play but I only ran it once (as opposed to being a player a number of times).
Cthulhutech was a horrorshow system with some really cool ass ideas mixed together (and Lovecraft(ian) is Sci-Fi to me).
2300 AD(and the original title) felt like actual future history to me (even if it was rather farcical) and bits of the system were ideas I'd have liked to see incorporated into Traveller.

In the end, with all that said, my favorite Sci-Fi Game was probably Big Eyes Small Mouth 2nd Edition, which could be, and was, well used for more traditional Sci-Fi.

Quote from: Brander;972394I think Star Frontiers was a poorly executed but nonetheless inspiring game.

What aspects did you think were poorly executed?

Quote from: Dumarest;972397What aspects did you think were poorly executed?

With the understanding that it's been decades since I played it, I recall not liking the skill system/advancement, how weak starting characters were, and the implication that Yazirians were supposed to be the toughs of the setting while actually being weak (though admittedly could berzerk).  I nonetheless still have a great fondness and nostalgia for it.

The biggest piece of poor execution I found in Star Frontiers was the way it seemed to be presented and marketed as a "kid's game" and not at all a "serious" sci fi game. I always felt that it got short changed from what it could have been.

Quote from: Dumarest;972316I understand you might not like the dice-rolling method it uses, but Traveller doesn't come with a setting. Do you mean the optional 3rd Imperium?

Ah probably, I didn't look that closely as to whether it was optional or not.
I've just played it a fair but,  not actually owned or bought the game itself. I've gone along with people who've been playing or running Traveller from time to time.
Whatever the case, I don't HATE Traveller, it's just not my favourite, but I'd play it if someone wanted to run it.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972362The weird thing about original Traveller was that it was built as a toolkit for people to build the cool setting they wanted. But somehow it took a turn and became a cesspit of people yelling at each other about getting the setting "right." (I missed most of that when I realized the game had become the Third Imperium and stepped away. My interest in pulling out my original Traveller rules is recent.)

Xavier, what rules do you use for your setting?

I used the Hero System for the original version, because I knew how to work with it, and it's versatile enough to do pretty much anything. After that, I re-invented the whole thing for Savage Worlds, but that version has been stuck in development/playtesting hell for a while now. At this point it's complete enough to use for homebrew games, which I enjoy running, but not ready for publication.

Quote from: Dumarest;972316I understand you might not like the dice-rolling method it uses, but Traveller doesn't come with a setting. Do you mean the optional 3rd Imperium?

Optional? That's crazy talk. What's next? People playing D&D without using the Forgotten Realms?

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;972489I used the Hero System for the original version, because I knew how to work with it, and it's versatile enough to do pretty much anything. After that, I re-invented the whole thing for Savage Worlds, but that version has been stuck in development/playtesting hell for a while now. At this point it's complete enough to use for homebrew games, which I enjoy running, but not ready for publication.

Awesome. Thanks!

Quote from: Baulderstone;972494Optional? That's crazy talk. What's next? People playing D&D without using the Forgotten Realms?

People I see playing Traveller with 3I: A substantial majority.
People I see playing D&D with FR: A minority.

Sure, you can play both either way, but by tradition or circumstance, the reality is a bit different.

My cousin got just about everything for Star Frontiers and tried to impress me with it, but I was into Star Fleet Battles and TFT at the time, and it didn't compare well in my tastes and he wasn't a good person to try to sell me on it, since he clearly didn't understand what he was talking about. I was nonetheless impressed by the amount of stuff made for it, and how it was an RPG system designed to have mapped combat systems both for personal combat and for spaceship combat, and it had some nice full-color counters and maps.

A decade or so later I actually bought someone's used Star Frontiers collection at Goodwill for a few bucks. I read it through and admired the map again (they didn't have the spaceship combat stuff though), and tried to see if I could use any of it. The answer was maybe I could use the map, but pretty much nothing else. The sci-fi personal combat system was exactly what I don't like in hitpoint-based combat systems (it seems to mainly be about endurance and slowly wearing down hitpoints rather than tactics and ways to avoid getting injured over and over - yay I was heroic and lived because I ran out of monsters before I died from the nearly-endless slew of random unbelievable encounters that all injured me a little bit), plus more stuff I don't like (some damage types and protections that seemed like fake rock-paper-scissors to me). The adventure modules were some of the what I would consider the worst I've ever seen (make the players' ship crash land in the alien jungle, then force them to go through 100 unbelievable rock-paper-scissors hitpoint/equipment endurance combat encounters to get home). Oh and I completely did not believe in the (four?) main races and their balanced rock-paper-scissors differences. Their distinctive body shapes also made most of the counters nothing I'd want to use for other games. I gave it back to Goodwill after a while.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;972497People I see playing Traveller with 3I: A substantial majority.
People I see playing D&D with FR: A minority.

Sure, you can play both either way, but by tradition or circumstance, the reality is a bit different.

Whether or not the reality is a substation majority is playing Traveller with the 3I, I think Baulderstone's point is the shock many people have (the majority you speak of) at the mere notion that one can use the Traveller rules to play games in different settings. This shock has nothing to do with the ease and blunt possibility of it -- which I think is what Baulderstone is getting at.

As for the numbers, while I'm sure you're right, I've been fascinated by the number of people at G+ and FB Traveller groups that don't use the 3I and really find no use for the 3I. There are a lot of people out there using Classic Traveller to play many settings. (Of course, they are drowned out by, and driven away by, constant debates and arguments what is a noble or not a noble in the 3I and so on... so their games don't get a lot of discussion online. But they're out there.)

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972505Whether or not the reality is a substation majority is playing Traveller with the 3I, I think Baulderstone's point is the shock many people have (the majority you speak of) at the mere notion that one can use the Traveller rules to play games in different settings. This shock has nothing to do with the ease and blunt possibility of it -- which I think is what Baulderstone is getting at.

That was my point. While Traveller is geared towards a certain type of science fiction, it is easy to adjust the flavor. For example, you can add the aesthetics and personality of Jack Vance, keep the rules the same, and your game will feel a lot different than the Third Imperium.

Invoking Clarke's Law the greatest Sci-Fi game of all time has to be Dungeons & Dragons.

Quote from: Baulderstone;972509That was my point. While Traveller is geared towards a certain type of science fiction, it is easy to adjust the flavor. For example, you can add the aesthetics and personality of Jack Vance, keep the rules the same, and your game will feel a lot different than the Third Imperium.

In high school (78-82 or so) Traveller was our go to "generic" system. We bent and twisted it to fit everything imaginable. We even did high fantasy with a magic system based on the psionic rules. Writing new Career tables was a great pastime.

Quote from: Baulderstone;972509That was my point. While Traveller is geared towards a certain type of science fiction, it is easy to adjust the flavor. For example, you can add the aesthetics and personality of Jack Vance, keep the rules the same, and your game will feel a lot different than the Third Imperium.

I would go further. Miller has said the inspiration for the original Traveller rules came from a potpourri of many tales and authors, but he has also given name to several of them over the years. One of them is Jack Vance. So in my view Traveller is ready (that is, already geared) for Jack Vance out of the gate.

Or rather, more specifically, the Classic Traveller rules don't have a flavor. They are waiting for the flavor. Part of Miller's genius in the design is to a kind "dehydrated" that allows the Referee to build out the setting he wants. (The one true conceit in the rules in the relatively slow travel times combined with communication at the speed of travel. This allows many cultures and kinds of worlds to exist in the same charted space... which is a common conceit of the fiction he drew from.)

When people think of the Traveller rules they are thinking of a kind of science fiction setting that, in my view, doesn't have much flavor. It lacks all the advanced-science-as-magic one finds in some stories, utterly lacks aliens, utterly lacks almost any SF concepts really (the list is very short in Books 1-3). But that is because the game is core principles one needs to build out a setting and game it. (This, as an example, is why the lower quarter of the TL chart is empty. It is waiting for the Referee to add whatever he wants of for his setting.)

The weirdness of the history of Traveller is that people read the rules and assumed, "Okay, this is it. This is the setting."

But as Geoffrey McKinney wrote of D&D some time back, "Ever since the 1970s, people have typically failed to distinguish between A) the D&D game and B) the sample playing pieces included with the game..." (McKinney's full comments, well worth a read, can be found here at the LotFP Forum (http://www.lotfp.com/RPG/discussion/topic/203/vanilla-is-good-but-there-are-countless-other-good-flavors-too/). I discuss his comments in the context of Traveller here (https://talestoastound.wordpress.com/2015/12/26/traveller-out-of-the-box-the-tools-are-not-the-setting/).)

So, yes... if you go for Jack Vance your game will feel very different than the Third Imperium. Because you can't actually get to the Third Imperium with the rules as written in Books 1-3. GDW added lots of material and ideas and specific feel for that setting as well. It's the beauty of the game. It's the strength of the game. It gives you what you need and no more... but also makes it crazy-easy to add elements if you wish.

Quote from: DavetheLost;972514In high school (78-82 or so) Traveller was our go to "generic" system. We bent and twisted it to fit everything imaginable. We even did high fantasy with a magic system based on the psionic rules. Writing new Career tables was a great pastime.

Sure. It's a flexible system. By "geared towards a certain type of science fiction", I just meant what you can do out-of-the-box without getting your hands dirty and making career tables and whatnot.

Invoking Vance again, you can find debatable hints that the Oikemene/Gaian Reach novels are set in an earlier era of the same history as The Dying Earth novels. I guess Traveller is the system if you want to run with that idea.

I like both Classic Traveller and Mongoose Traveller. When planning a session I like to mix in the use of the GM tools from Stars Without Number because they're awesome.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972505Whether or not the reality is a substation majority is playing Traveller with the 3I, I think Baulderstone's point is the shock many people have (the majority you speak of) at the mere notion that one can use the Traveller rules to play games in different settings. This shock has nothing to do with the ease and blunt possibility of it -- which I think is what Baulderstone is getting at.

As for the numbers, while I'm sure you're fight, I've been fascinated by the number of people at G+ and FB Traveller groups that don't use the 3I and really find no use for the 3I. There are a lot of people out there using Classic Traveller to play many settings. (Of course, they are drowned out by, and driven away by, constant debates and arguments what is a noble or not a noble in the 3I and so on... so their games don't get a lot of discussion online. But they're out there.)

Pretty much this. Its kind of hard to argue over the nuances of someone's homebrew setting with some random, anonymous internet person. I suspect that people who don't use 3I are far, far more numerous than anyone has guessed. While 3I players may well still be the majority, I'd wager the nature of the internet tends to present a false demographic in this regard.

Quote from: savageschemer;972518when planning a session i like to mix in the use of the gm tools from stars without number because they're awesome.

I concur.

Quote from: Baulderstone;972517Sure. It's a flexible system. By "geared towards a certain type of science fiction", I just meant what you can do out-of-the-box without getting your hands dirty and making career tables and whatnot.

Invoking Vance again, you can find debatable hints that the Oikemene/Gaian Reach novels are set in an earlier era of the same history as The Dying Earth novels. I guess Traveller is the system if you want to run with that idea.

I get you. But I would add, even then, if you don't add something you don't have much.

When I referenced Vance, I was thinking of Miller discussing The Demon Princes as a strong influence on Traveller. While the character creation won't line up perfectly, I could see Kirth Gersen coming out of the Other prior service. There's a great deal you could bring into an RPG setting based on The Demon Princes that would definitely have the feel of that setting but still be Traveller.

To me Classic Traveller has always felt a lot like H Beam Piper. But that is like saying D&D has always felt like Fritz Lieber. You can flavour the stock that way if you choose, but other flavours are equally valid.

Both games in their early form were like soup stock, a base you were expected to add your own touches to in order to have a complete meal.

Buck Rogers XXVc.  Not such a fan of THAC0, but the setting simply can't be beat IMO.  Of course, it's hard to get new players for the game with it being out of print for 25 years.

There are certainly elements of that Space Viking book.  Throw in some Jack Vance and E.C. Tubb and you're nearly there. But Traveller, like D&D, draws from enough sources that it can't be pinned down to any one setting and can be used right out of the box to make your own setting that will differ from any other referee's setting if only because of the results of your random rolls and interpretations thereof.

Quote from: Dumarest;972601There are certainly elements of that Space Viking book.  Throw in some Jack Vance and E.C. Tubb and you're nearly there. But Traveller, like D&D, draws from enough sources that it can't be pinned down to any one setting and can be used right out of the box to make your own setting that will differ from any other referee's setting if only because of the results of your random rolls and interpretations thereof.

Yep.

Star Frontiers is probably still my favorite space game, especially because it had Knight Hawks for ship combat and a lot of cool articles in Dragon.  Plus, Dralasites FTW.  Spacemaster and FASA Trek were pretty cool for the same reason, I like games with a ship combat system that interfaces with the RPG rules.

The Classic Traveller system never made much sense to me when I first read it due to the "4 years of training/working and I got better in one thing, when really I'd be learning all these skills."  It only really made sense to me after reading Kubasik's site.  CT's a game with neither a class system or a skill system in the traditional sense.  I still like MgT1 better I think, with all the content and expansions it really gives you a bigass toolbox.  I'll probaly revisit CT at some point doing a Solar System campaign.

CRKrueger, I saw a solar system setting called something like Orbit or Orbital, but I seem to recall it was for Mongoose's version of Traveller. You might want to check it out anyway. I think I saw it on "Drive- Thru RPG." It looked pretty cool if you're into a "hard sci fi" near-future setting.

Quote from: Dumarest;972732CRKrueger, I saw a solar system setting called something like Orbit or Orbital, but I seem to recall it was for Mongoose's version of Traveller. You might want to check it out anyway. I think I saw it on "Drive- Thru RPG." It looked pretty cool if you're into a "hard sci fi" near-future setting.

Yeah, I've heard good things about it from the Traveller people here.

I'd say Mg-Traveller 1e that inspired a lot of my own designs. But thanks to Christopher Kubasik here I looked into Classic Traveller and managed to grab a copy of the 1977 edition of the game. Living in France the game didn't really made it here at the time (as far as I knew anyway).

I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised. It really is a great design. It can be used to do so many things, even beyond the SF genre (that "Wanderer" mock-up cover made me dream...).

So many thanks to Christopher Kubasik and the RPGSite.

Wanderer was pretty neat.  Someone made it sort of real as Mercator Traveller.

Stars Without Number (SWN)for me.  I tried Star Frontiers and Traveller back in the day, but neither one grabbed me, and I never really revisited sci-fi RPGs again until about 7 years ago.   SWN was really easy to get into and provided a remarkable amount of resources and inspiration for a free product.  The new Revised Edition is coming to Kickstarter in a few weeks!  I actually discuss that and compare it to the original game in the video link below.

https://youtu.be/WfAuztPKlUI (https://youtu.be/WfAuztPKlUI)

Thanks for the link, gwb79.

I like Stars without Number a lot. I also revisited Star Frontiers (everything is up for downloading on a fan site) and it stands up well I think.

Quote from: gwb79;972864Stars Without Number (SWN)for me.  I tried Star Frontiers and Traveller back in the day, but neither one grabbed me, and I never really revisited sci-fi RPGs again until about 7 years ago.   SWN was really easy to get into and provided a remarkable amount of resources and inspiration for a free product.  The new Revised Edition is coming to Kickstarter in a few weeks!  I actually discuss that and compare it to the original game in the video link below.

https://youtu.be/WfAuztPKlUI (https://youtu.be/WfAuztPKlUI)

I really like Crawford's work. He has a lovely OSR sensibility (as I define it anyway!): Solid tools and random tables that help a Referee create content on the fly. While I'll probably never run Stars Without Numbers (I have Classic Traveller) there is content that I do use from SWN. I've never backed an RPG Kickstarter before. But I might back this one -- only because I've been so impressed with Crawford's work.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;972937I really like Crawford's work. He has a lovely OSR sensibility (as I define it anyway!): Solid tools and random tables that help a Referee create content on the fly. While I'll probably never run Stars Without Numbers (I have Classic Traveller) there is content that I do use from SWN. I've never backed an RPG Kickstarter before. But I might back this one -- only because I've been so impressed with Crawford's work.

What in Stars w/o Number do you use? Is it worth getting just as an add-on to Traveller '77? I have no interest in changing games but am always open to material i can incorporate into the games I like.

Quote from: Dumarest;972938What in Stars w/o Number do you use? Is it worth getting just as an add-on to Traveller '77? I have no interest in changing games but am always open to material i can incorporate into the games I like.

The world tags are easily usable. I've made some use of them, though if you roll randomly, you might find yourself re-rolling some (some of them may conflict with the UWP depending on how you interpret the tags and the UWP). The stuff on setting up factions could easily port in.

It's available free or pay what you want.

Frank

Quote from: ffilz;972945The world tags are easily usable. I've made some use of them, though if you roll randomly, you might find yourself re-rolling some (some of them may conflict with the UWP depending on how you interpret the tags and the UWP). The stuff on setting up factions could easily port in.

It's available free or pay what you want.

Frank

Frank said basically what I would say.

Here, for example, is a portion of the Tag table:

(https://talestoastound.files.wordpress.com/2017/02/screen-shot-2017-03-12-at-9-24-41-am.png)

The value of the SWN added to the Classic Traveller World Generation system is this:

The weakness of the CT Main World Generation system , if it is one, is that it might suggest to people, "Roll up these numbers, slap on some obvious high-tech explanation for any obvious inconsistencies, and you're done."

The system, focused on the raw numbers of facts suggests that this is the focus of world building. And later material in the CT line (and later editions of Traveller) would drill down into more astronomic information.... But I don't think that's what the purpose of the Main World Generation system was for... at all.

 Marc Miller was not only an Army Captain but also got a B.A. in Sociology. Combined with the compelling conceits about countless societies found in the books by Tubb, Piper, Vance, Bester, Norton, Anderson, Pournelle, and all the other SF authors that inspired Miller's work on Classic Traveller, a case can be made that the focus of the game was not actually Hard SF and gear, but all the interesting cultures, societies, and characters the Player Characters get to encounter, puzzle out, and interact with.

The advantage of the SWN Tags and Factions is that they get the Referee focused on People, Society, Culture, Groups. Now not every Referee needs to be nudged in that direction. But I find that if you overlay Tags on top of worlds you make sure not to get stuck thinking an interesting Traveller world is all about it's diameter and government type. That stuff matters... but it was supposed to be the starting point for creating a cool, exotic, and unique culture. The stuff from SWN (which Frank notes is FREE) helps nudge a Referee into making sure that his worlds are grabby in terms of the stuff of society for Player Character to encounter, explore, and deal with... which I would argue was the assumed position of play for the original Traveller rules.

Thanks, that looks pretty nifty. I'll have to try the free version and see what else it has to recommend it for use with Traveller '77.

Well I just started my first White Star game, running it as an online PBP for my asynchronous players... it looks to have a lot of handy tables in the Companion especially - the core book is pretty bare-bones - going to see how well it supports a very lightly plotted space opera...

I'm not familiar with White Star. Wasn't that a movie by the guy who wrote Alien?

Quote from: Dumarest;973069I'm not familiar with White Star. Wasn't that a movie by the guy who wrote Alien?

That was Dark Star. Directed by John Carpenter, co-writeen by Dan O'Bannon (Alien).

WEG Star Wars for me. If I were still in my early teens in the 1980s this answer would be Palladium's Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Quote from: Dumarest;972938What in Stars w/o Number do you use? Is it worth getting just as an add-on to Traveller '77? I have no interest in changing games but am always open to material i can incorporate into the games I like.

What I really like about Stars Without Number are the various campaign systems, not just world-generation.  For instance, Darkness Visible (the espionage expansion) has rules for assets and turn-based play at the organization level that seamlessly integrates with PC-scale role-playing.  Or at least it looks like it should...I haven't had the occasion to try it.  Now that I think about it, my players might really enjoy that kind of campaign.  And Suns of Gold has nice abstract rules for trade that can be layered on top of SWN's world generation, or used completely independently.  One of the great appeals of Crawford's sci-fi setting is its extreme modularity.

Talking about this now has me thinking how much fun it could be to run a Darkness Visible campaign combined with the make-your-own-Mythos of Silent Legions lurking behind the scenes.

Quote from: Edgewise;973104What I really like about Stars Without Number are the various campaign systems, not just world-generation.  For instance, Darkness Visible (the espionage expansion) has rules for assets and turn-based play at the organization level that seamlessly integrates with PC-scale role-playing.  Or at least it looks like it should...I haven't had the occasion to try it.  Now that I think about it, my players might really enjoy that kind of campaign.  And Suns of Gold has nice abstract rules for trade that can be layered on top of SWN's world generation, or used completely independently.  One of the great appeals of Crawford's sci-fi setting is its extreme modularity.

Talking about this now has me thinking how much fun it could be to run a Darkness Visible campaign combined with the make-your-own-Mythos of Silent Legions lurking behind the scenes.

The last sector I generated had a world with the Secret Masters and Xenophile tag. That inspired me to break out Silent Legion and use it to generate the monstrous aliens secretly manipulating events on this world.

I also agree with you on the Faction rules and campaign frames like those in Darkness Visible. They are nicely tuned for use in play. It's easy to get too vague or too finicky with those kinds things in an RPG.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973112The last sector I generated had a world with the Secret Masters and Xenophile tag. That inspired me to break out Silent Legion and use it to generate the monstrous aliens secretly manipulating events on this world.

I also agree with you on the Faction rules and campaign frames like those in Darkness Visible. They are nicely tuned for use in play. It's easy to get too vague or too finicky with those kinds things in an RPG.

That's the great thing about Crawford's stuff, you can get all of it and it becomes a great toolbox, even if you might not think of pulling Silent Legions and Spears of the Dawn into Other Dust, it works.

Classic Traveller
WEG Star Wars
Robotech

By the way, where did you guys obtain Stars w/o Number?

Drivethru RPG Free Download (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/86467)

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;973155Drivethru RPG Free Download (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/86467)

Thanks.

I just read your latest article. Sounds like a lot of fun. What convention was that? Maybe you said but I didn't notice. I saw in the comments that it may be reprinted in Freelance Traveller. I didn't notice any explanation of what that is but I'll be Googling it to check it out.

Quote from: Dumarest;973169What convention was that? Maybe you said but I didn't notice. I saw in the comments that it may be reprinted in Freelance Traveller. I didn't notice any explanation of what that is but I'll be Googling it to check it out.

It was one of the three Strategicon conventions held in Los Angeles every year.

And: Freelance Traveller (https://www.freelancetraveller.com)

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;973172It was one of the three Strategicon conventions held in Los Angeles every year.

And: Freelance Traveller (https://www.freelancetraveller.com)

I should put you on retainer. Endless font of useful information for Traveller!

Quote from: Dumarest;973154By the way, where did you guys obtain Stars w/o Number?

I bought SWN from drivethrurpg as well and also bought a print version of SWN (and Other dust and Silent legions) from there.

Quote from: danskmacabre;973184I bought SWN from drivethrurpg as well and also bought a print version of SWN (and Other dust and Silent legions) from there.

Cool, thank you, I think I will download whatever the free version is and print it at work and then, if it's useful enough, buy a hardcopy when financially feasible.

Anybody play it on its own, that is, not just use it as a resource for their sci fi game of choice? What's it like?

After watching the YT review of the SWN revision, I'm a bit concerned about how the skillset have been compressed/simplified so much.
I'll need to have a proper read of the skill section in the new version (which is still in beta anyway) before deciding if this is a deal breaker.

Quote from: Dumarest;973186Cool, thank you, I think I will download whatever the free version is and print it at work and then, if it's useful enough, buy a hardcopy when financially feasible.

Anybody play it on its own, that is, not just use it as a resource for their sci fi game of choice? What's it like?

On your first point, if you buy a print version, make sure you get the CORE rules version, as it has more content (Androids, AI etc).
Also, as noted, the author is working on a Revision ATM, it goes into a KS soon, so worth keeping that in mind.

As to your second question.
I run SWN as a standalone game/campaign (I also use stuff from Other Dust and Silent legions) and have been for a couple of years now and it's a great system to use ands it;s very flexible, LOTS of GM material and easy to modify to your own style/needs.

Quote from: ChristopherKubasik;973155Drivethru RPG Free Download (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/86467)

You might also find the free v0.10 beta version (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4qCWY8UnLrcbVhOYUdHRzNKcGc/view) of the second edition worth a look too.

Some of the changes are controversial, as it drifts a little from its OSR roots, but it's still basically the same damn system, and it is going to be trivial for people to take what they like from either edition and get exactly what they want. People that like the longer skill list of 1st edition and the more involved space combat of second edition should be able to do manage it.

Some parts are just pure improvement, with a Psionics system that relies on Effort, which people familiar with Godlike will instantly recognize.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973194People that like the longer skill list of 1st edition and the more involved space combat of second edition should be able to do manage it.

Yeah the new Space combat system is a BIG improvement.  Much more colourful and prompts lots of Roleplay possibilities.

I'm not sold either way on new vs old Skill system, I need to give it a proper read. but at first glance, I'm not impressed with the new System.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973194Some parts are just pure improvement, with a Psionics system that relies on Effort, which people familiar with Godlike will instantly recognize.

I also like the new Psionics system, much more interesting. :)

Eclipse Phase and Star Wars D6.

For me a far future setting with Robots, AI, Power Armor, FTL travel, Alien Races, Nanotech, Cybertech, Energy Weapons and Psionics is not the setting that needs a cut-to-the-bone skill system.  Luckily, there hasn't been a skill system created where if you don't like the number, you just trim or add and the only thing that gets affected is advancement, somewhat.

Quote from: CRKrueger;973217For me a far future setting with Robots, AI, Power Armor, FTL travel, Alien Races, Nanotech, Cybertech, Energy Weapons and Psionics is not the setting that needs a cut-to-the-bone skill system.  

Conversely I tend to prefer broad-strokes space opera games that have those things, but either have a short skill list (eg d6 Star Wars) or are class & level based. Class-based games don't need skills IMO, the whole point of a Class is that it defines your abilities. If the game has D&D style Class, Level & Attributes then it really doesn't need Skills too IMO.

At this point it'd be either d6 star wars which i didn't play much, or Edge of the Empire.

Eclipse Phase is certainly very impressive but ruleswise a bit of a clusterfuck - a.k.a. I haven't finished the damn thing.

I can't really think of anything else. I owned Star Frontiers Alpha Dawn as a kid, but never played it. Nostalgia is everything.

I was never really smitten by Traveller and can't think of anything else. I hated the Dark Heresy ruleset, but loved their take on the setting.

Lemme see.

For depth of material and good adventures I love Traveller and prefer the Mongoose flavor. For exploration fun it is Hulls and Horrors with Stars Without Number not far behind. For a pickup game I would probably run White Star or Numenera. For production Values definitely the new Star Trek Adventures (FULL DISCLOSURE I wrote part of the core book and some adventures for it). I also really like Day Troopers by Tod Foley. Imagine if The Strange and Traveller had a kid. That is Day Trippers.

Quote from: Rob Lang;972097[Plug warning] Like a broken record I'm going to say Icar (http://www.icar.co.uk) because I wrote it and it is inextricably woven into the fabric of my life and friends. I always like the version that I'm writing at any one time.

I like Paranoia, I played the original to death with all the source books. I have the new one too, read not played. I've always enjoyed the humour and the situations that the players get themselves into.

The only other one I really like is SLA Industries. It's so dark and gritty while having some silliness to it.

Oh, hey, Rob! Yeah, If at is fantastic. I've been following it for probably nine years now.

Quote from: DiscoSoup;973408Lemme see.

For depth of material and good adventures I love Traveller and prefer the Mongoose flavor. For exploration fun it is Hulls and Horrors with Stars Without Number not far behind. For a pickup game I would probably run White Star or Numenera. For production Values definitely the new Star Trek Adventures (FULL DISCLOSURE I wrote part of the core book and some adventures for it). I also really like Day Troopers by Tod Foley. Imagine if The Strange and Traveller had a kid. That is Day Trippers.

What new "Star Trek Adventures"?

From Modiphius. It drops in August, I think,though you can preorder it now and get the PDF.

Quote from: DiscoSoup;973462From Modiphius. It drops in August, I think,though you can preorder it now and get the PDF.

I think the pdf is out now, or in the next day, or so I believe.

Is there anywhere I can look at it to see what its rules are and what it's like?

PDF is out if you preorder. Not available on Drivethru. It has a lifepath character generation system. You can play as Andorian, Bajoran, Denobulan, Trill, Human, Tellarite, Vulcan or Betazoid as Starfleet characters, and I think there are stats for Klingons, Romulans and others in the back of the book. I was mainly a "lore" writer, as opposed to rules. Oh, and this book is pretty. I mean gorgeous. It ain't cheap, but I'd say that it's worth it.

Quote from: Dumarest;973560Is there anywhere I can look at it to see what its rules are and what it's like?

I was in a playtest and I found it a little tot close to Cortex Plus for my taste. I'm not entirely opposed to narrative-type systems, but this system and Cortex Plus have more fiddliness than I like in a narrative system. There were just too many moving parts in the core mechanic for me: Tasks, Hazards, Consequences, Momentum, Determination, Values, Challenges. I'm not saying it is a bad system. It just isn't for me. Too much dice pool management.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973569I was in a playtest and I found it a little tot close to Cortex Plus for my taste. I'm not entirely opposed to narrative-type systems, but this system and Cortex Plus have more fiddliness than I like in a narrative system. There were just too many moving parts in the core mechanic for me: Tasks, Hazards, Consequences, Momentum, Determination, Values, Challenges. I'm not saying it is a bad system. It just isn't for me. Too much dice pool management.

Thanks. Sounds like I'll pass as well as that type of mechanic is not my cup of tea. Oh well. I still have FASA!

That's too bad, but all the best. Anyway, it is out now at Drivethru (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/214552/Star-Trek-Adventures-Core-Rulebook?affiliate_id=319435).

Quote from: The Exploited.;973533I think the pdf is out now, or in the next day, or so I believe.

It's out now. Unfortunately the preview, as it always is with DTRPG, is rubbish.

Star Trek Adventures is just a wee bit too narrative for my taste, but there's always "Starships & Spacemen Second Edition," which is literally Star Trek meets B/X D&D with the names filed off.  It even has an alien forehead generator.

Quote from: Biscuitician;973590It's out now. Unfortunately the preview, as it always is with DTRPG, is rubbish.

Tell the publisher. If publisher doesn't change the default, the preview uses the first six pages. I let Pundit (actually, Pundit's publisher) know that Arrows of Indra's preview was nothing but blank and title pages. They changed the preview to be a useful portion of the book, which was really nice.

Quote from: DiscoSoup;973586That's too bad, but all the best. Anyway, it is out now at Drivethru (http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/214552/Star-Trek-Adventures-Core-Rulebook?affiliate_id=319435).

I still hope it does well enough to make it worthwhile for publishers do pursue licenses of this type and put out additional materials. Sometimes even if the game itself is something I might not use, other materials are useful to me.

Quote from: Celestial;973591Star Trek Adventures is just a wee bit too narrative for my taste, but there's always "Starships & Spacemen Second Edition," which is literally Star Trek meets B/X D&D with the names filed off.  It even has an alien forehead generator.

Well, anything meeting D&D mechanics tends to be a nonstarter for me by virtue of my not caring for D&D in the first place. I've yet to see a better game for Star Trek than the old FASA one.

Quote from: Baulderstone;973569I was in a playtest and I found it a little tot close to Cortex Plus for my taste. I'm not entirely opposed to narrative-type systems, but this system and Cortex Plus have more fiddliness than I like in a narrative system. There were just too many moving parts in the core mechanic for me: Tasks, Hazards, Consequences, Momentum, Determination, Values, Challenges. I'm not saying it is a bad system. It just isn't for me. Too much dice pool management.

Yeah, they're using that 2d20 thing. Again.

Quote from: Dumarest;973634Well, anything meeting D&D mechanics tends to be a nonstarter for me by virtue of my not caring for D&D in the first place. I've yet to see a better game for Star Trek than the old FASA one.

I've never considered Star Trek very gameable but I own one Star Trek RPG book that was too good a price to pass. Let me check which one it is... Last Unicorn Games, so not FASA I guess. I haven't actually read it. Is it any good?

Quote from: Dumarest;973634Well, anything meeting D&D mechanics tends to be a nonstarter for me by virtue of my not caring for D&D in the first place. I've yet to see a better game for Star Trek than the old FASA one.

Then what are you doing here? :O

Quote from: flyingmice;973672Then what are you doing here? :O

Stirring up trouble with The Fantasy Trip heresy and Traveller propaganda.

Quote from: 3rik;973671I've never considered Star Trek very gameable but I own one Star Trek RPG book that was too good a price to pass. Let me check which one it is... Last Unicorn Games, so not FASA I guess. I haven't actually read it. Is it any good?

That was the first RPG I ever bought. Pretty good system. Some of the designers for that game went on to work on the Decipher version and this one.

Quote from: DiscoSoup;973695That was the first RPG I ever bought. Pretty good system. Some of the designers for that game went on to work on the Decipher version and this one.

The preview only shows a few pages but it seemed to be only New Generation/Deep Star Nine/Voyager-era. Is that so? And if so, any plans to produce something for fans of the original who aren't really interested in latter-day post-Kirk/Spock/McCoy Trek? (I don't count the new movies as "original series," just to be clear.)

Even if the answer is no, like I said before I still encourage Star Trek RPGs in general as sometimes if enough New Generation stuff sells, it opens things up for Trek in general (or so I like to think).

Quote from: 3rik;973671Yeah, they're using that 2d20 thing. Again.



I've never considered Star Trek very gameable but I own one Star Trek RPG book that was too good a price to pass. Let me check which one it is... Last Unicorn Games, so not FASA I guess. I haven't actually read it. Is it any good?

I have the Last Unicorn version as well. It was so right, I guess, but never inspired me to do much with it in the way the FASA game did. At this point I much prefer FASA's interpretation of Klingons and their starships...for me there is no "Miranda" class, it'll always be Reliant class!

Quote from: dumarest;973677stirring up trouble with the fantasy trip heresy and traveller propaganda.

So say we all!

Quote from: Dumarest;973696The preview only shows a few pages but it seemed to be only New Generation/Deep Star Nine/Voyager-era. Is that so? And if so, any plans to produce something for fans of the original who aren't really interested in latter-day post-Kirk/Spock/McCoy Trek? (I don't count the new movies as "original series," just to be clear.)

Even if the answer is no, like I said before I still encourage Star Trek RPGs in general as sometimes if enough New Generation stuff sells, it opens things up for Trek in general (or so I like to think).

There was a Star Trek TOS game from Last Unicorn Games, but I only own the Next Generation core rules.

Quote from: 3rik;973757There was a Star Trek TOS game from Last Unicorn Games, but I only own the Next Generation core rules.

Don't bring me problems, bring me solutions! :p

Anyone know what the deal with Starfinder is? It's mean to be Pathfinder in the future, but is it basically elves and dwarves flying spaceships?

I actually think that would be kind of cool, but I'm not sure i've seen anyone make it work.

Quote from: Biscuitician;973780Anyone know what the deal with Starfinder is? It's mean to be Pathfinder in the future, but is it basically elves and dwarves flying spaceships?

I actually think that would be kind of cool, but I'm not sure i've seen anyone make it work.

To the best of my knowledge, all that has been officially confirmed is that they are trying to use the same rules or the next iteration of the rules as PF. Whether there are space elves and dwarves (so, Vulcans and Klingons) or not, I don't know and to my knowledge, such things aren't public.

Quote from: Biscuitician;973780Anyone know what the deal with Starfinder is? It's mean to be Pathfinder in the future, but is it basically elves and dwarves flying spaceships?

I've developed a strong enough allergy to Pathfinder/3.5 mechanics that I really can't be bothered to see if they managed to make it cool. Those games are so stat-heavy that they aren't even a great value for stealing ideas from.

Never even heard of Starfinder. But I don't even like elves and dwarves in fantasy games, much less in sci fi. I've never played Pathfinder so I can't comment about that; all I know is it is apparently AD&D under a pseudonym.

So anyone know when the Infinity rpg (the one by Modiphius based on the minis game) comes out?

Quote from: Biscuitician;973934So anyone know when the Infinity rpg (the one by Modiphius based on the minis game) comes out?

I don't know. My preference is for Traveller, but I'm building a Transhuman Campaign Setting for Sarah Newton's Mindjammer right at the moment, and am enjoying working on this immensely, however it is going slow. I should be writing a review of Mindjammer very soon, but need a group to run a couple of games to get a feel for how the Fate mechanics play out for this fascinating sci-fi setting.

Quote from: GameDaddy;973999I don't know. My preference is for Traveller, but I'm building a Transhuman Campaign Setting for Sarah Newton's Mindjammer right at the moment, and am enjoying working on this immensely, however it is going slow. I should be writing a review of Mindjammer very soon, but need a group to run a couple of games to get a feel for how the Fate mechanics play out for this fascinating sci-fi setting.

I went with the best of both...Mindjammer with Traveller rules.

Quote from: Biscuitician;973934So anyone know when the Infinity rpg (the one by Modiphius based on the minis game) comes out?

The main book is supposed to be finally shipping next month, with supplements into 2018. The playtest pdfs look fantastic.

Quote from: Biscuitician;973780Anyone know what the deal with Starfinder is? It's mean to be Pathfinder in the future, but is it basically elves and dwarves flying spaceships?

I actually think that would be kind of cool, but I'm not sure i've seen anyone make it work.

Have you heard of DragonStar?

Quote from: Biscuitician;973780Anyone know what the deal with Starfinder is? It's mean to be Pathfinder in the future, but is it basically elves and dwarves flying spaceships?

One of their ambitions is to do for space opera what Shadowrun did for cyberpunk.  It might not live up to that dream, but it is a worthy ambition.

Elves don't get out much these days.  They turned even more insular and xenophobic and are not considered to be core races.  They are given stats in an appendix for people who want that sort of thing, along with all the Pathfinder core races aside from humans.  I don't know what the story is on why none of them are major species, though.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;974000I went with the best of both...Mindjammer with Traveller rules.

Yep.

I'd be very interested in checking Infinity out.

Will the pdf come out before then?

Quote from: Tetsubo;974026Have you heard of DragonStar?

Yes, but it never grabbed me. Starfinder kinda did, but the rules don't.

Quote from: Biscuitician;974278Yes, but it never grabbed me. Starfinder kinda did, but the rules don't.

You might have better luck just going Savage Worlds Sci-Fi splat (they have a couple of settings - Last Parsec is nice) and import all the fantasy races from their Fantasy setting books and Fantasy Companion and go to town. Magic/Psionic/etc. are just re-skins with minor changes. It's a lot less crunchy than Pathfinder.

traveller: interstellar wars

I am partial to 2300AD but with the Traveller Rules.

Quote from: Tod13;973624Tell the publisher. If publisher doesn't change the default, the preview uses the first six pages. I let Pundit (actually, Pundit's publisher) know that Arrows of Indra's preview was nothing but blank and title pages. They changed the preview to be a useful portion of the book, which was really nice.

That's all on Bedrock.  But I'm very glad that worked out! I'm sure most OSR publishers would do the same in similar circumstances.