In another thread, Hermes Serpent says:

Quote from: Hermes Serpent;962064What I've found interesting about this thread is the low value placed on pdf's when the content is identical to the hard copy version. Even allowing for the cost of production of a hard copy book the disparity between the two formats is skewed very much in favour of paying much higher sums for hard copy compared to soft copy pdf's.

Which reminds me of my recent realization: I value PDFs much more than I used to, but when I want a hardcopy, I want the hardcopy.

I use a good variety of references when I game, but I never game at home. Portability is at a premium, and with tablets and slim laptops, portability of PDFs is quite a bit more of a selling point that it used to be.

Additionally, shelf space management at home is becoming a growing concern for me.

Accordingly, often when I purchase a gaming product these days, I often only buy it in PDF.
The main exceptions for me is core books or frequently referenced character option books. There is often a demand for multiple copies of these at the table.

Contrariwise, if I don't know I will be playing a game, I will go for the PDF to review it, borrow content, etc.

How about you? How do you value PDFs? Has it changed over the years?

PDFs are useful for me for two things: casual reading (be it at home or on the go) and copying material out of to re-work for my own homebrew games. I never use them for actual gaming, and that's why physical copies of games will always be far more valuable for me. I can reference something in a physical book 10x faster than even the best PDFs out there.

I can definitely understand the shelf space argument, however. That's one big reason I dislike books that are bloated with pages of unneeded content that exist solely to drive up the page count and do nothing to help with gaming.

I've come around a bunch on pdfs- there's a lot to the format that is praise worthy.  They don't take up physical space, they can be updated with errata, they won't yellow over time and what not.  The pdf you get today will look the same years from now with heavy use:)  That being said, a book, binder, booklet- just easier to use at the table.  I'm sure at some point, someone will come out with a really user friendly pdf that's easy to use at the table.

One issue with a pdf is- you can never sell it or trade it in.  A book you can do that if it doesn't end up being your thing.

I want all my RPGs to be delivered in tablet accessible #Wikis. PDFs are a historical accident and holding us back.

Quote from: RunningLaser;962153One issue with a pdf is- you can never sell it or trade it in.  A book you can do that if it doesn't end up being your thing.

That is a very good point. No resale value, no collector value.

Quote from: RunningLaser;962152I'm sure at some point, someone will come out with a really user friendly pdf that's easy to use at the table.

Technology is going to have to improve for that to happen. There are already some fantastic PDFs out there; just look at the "augmented" PDFs that Void Star Studios puts out for games like Nova Praxis. But as long as they're still being accessed through our current clunky tablets and computers, they'll never be as easy to use as a physical book regardless of how well organized and linked they are.

I normally only buy PDFs now, as they are portable and easy to use in a gaming session.

Very occasionally will I buy hardcopy, normally when I am backing something I am involved with.

I greatly prefer PDFs to start with. If I really like the book, then I'll buy it too (for play at the table, can be quicker to look up the book then fiddle with the PDF sometimes). Also you can often pass the book around more easily. I should also point out I prefer softcover to hardcover, just less bulk.

Quote from: Dumarest;962159That is a very good point. No resale value, no collector value.

Also they are potentially very fragile due to file corruption or any given computer mishap.

The other problem with PDFs is that they require you to be at the computer or have some sort of device handy. And for more than a few playing an RPG is getting the hell away from the computer.

I like both but increasingly PDFs are a greater convenience for me. The search function is especially helpful compared to print books. I tend to rely more on PDFs during online games and books during regular live sessions. But most people at my table use PDFs on a tablet now.

Quote from: Dumarest;962159That is a very good point. No resale value, no collector value.

True. However, I'm finding this to be less true than it once was. When I was trying to do a purge, I couldn't give some stuff away.

Quote from: Omega;962187Also they are potentially very fragile due to file corruption or any given computer mishap.

That, not so much. If the vendor isn't stable and responsible, it can be a problem (Kobold press had a total changeover of their system since their early patron projects; if I lose what I have now, I'm hosed.) But nowadays, most vendors are able to let you re-download at will.

QuoteThe other problem with PDFs is that they require you to be at the computer or have some sort of device handy.

And that right there is the principal weakness. Dead tree book have their display device built-in.

I prefer books at the table because they're easier to use for me. But as soon as someone comes up with a device for consulting PDF (or any other digital format) which allows the same ease of use, the switch will be instantaneous.

To be honest I don't understand what they're waiting for. Something with color e-ink and a double screen to simulate the two pages of an open book, and an horizontal scrollbar to quickly jump to the needed section, would solve most of the current problems.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;962146In another thread, Hermes Serpent says:



Which reminds me of my recent realization: I value PDFs much more than I used to, but when I want a hardcopy, I wank the hardcopy.

Sorry, but this statement had me in stitches, I guess that it's a typing error but wank is British slang for masturbation so you can imagine the mental picture ....

Looking at current hardcopy prices from, let's say, a mid-tier publisher, Pelgrane Press, the price for a hard copy of 13th Age is $44.95. They currently offer the pdf either alone or in a bundle but let's look at the standalone pdf at $19.95. The total discount for a distributor and a retailer is usually something like 60% of the hard copy price so  $45 x.40 or $18 bucks nett to PP.  This falls in line with the $19.95 listed for just the pdf (allowing for some missing details of the exact discount to the point of sale) and allows for the cost of hosting a e-commerce shop.

Let's select another company, Cubicle 7, of similar nature. C7 have a US warehouse and print both in the US and in Europe as well as China whereas I believe PP print in the US. The cost of their relatively new Adventures in Middle Earth is $39.99 in hard copy and  $19.99 in pdf (from Drivethru) so applying the same logic as above the discounted cost of the pdf is around $16 so Drivethru costs C7 extra to host their pdf's there and this is confirmed by Pelgrane charging $24.95 for the 13th Age pdf via Drivethru compared to only £19.95 on their own site.

People using Drivethru to host all their pdf's in one place are paying extra for the convenience to do so. Seeing as the cost of a few hundred GB of cloud storage is negligible but the cost of the time in copying all your pdfs to the cloud is variable people can make a choice.

While paying small sums like a few bucks is OK for something you are ambivalent about playing is fine the cost of a properly linked rulebook in pdf (plus in some cases an ebook version (Pelgrane supply mobi and other formats in their zipped pdf)) should be more in line with the utility (searching and lower weight) of the pdf. The smell and look of a book is an intangible quality that varies from person to person but looking good on the shelf or coffee table while not being used in play hardly warrants the cost.