Quote from: CRKrueger;942046It's interesting though, because these narrative games don't necessarily have Less rules, they just have Different ones.  

You hit on the reason why I said what you quoted in your sig.

Me to the Storygame designer: I

Quoteplayed Star Fleet Battles and learned how to use MCIDS from rule E6 to defeat plasma torpedoes.. I puzzled out the intricacies of rule 29.5 in the Universe RPG. Your game rules has a the same stench and just as fucking obsessed with mechanics.

Quote from: tenbones;942672So the guy in the A-wing gets shot to pieces... on his way out he crashes into the bridge of the Executor causing it to collide with the Death Star II!!!!

Wild die result of 1 for Imperial Gunners or Wild die result of 6 (and possibly exploding) for A-Wing pilot.

Quote from: jeff37923;942718Wild die result of 1 for Imperial Gunners or Wild die result of 6 (and possibly exploding) for A-Wing pilot.

But can you do it all in one roll? MUAHAHAHAHAH!

Quote from: tenbones;942813But can you do it all in one roll? MUAHAHAHAHAH!

...

Yes?

Quote from: Michael Gray;942814...

Yes?

/needle screeches off the vinyl...

whut?

Quote from: tenbones;942819/needle screeches off the vinyl...

whut?

The Wild Die in d6 Star Wars is just one of your extra dice. If you roll a one the GM can intro a complication (or just take out the Wild Die and your highest die if they can't think of anything good), if you roll a 6 it explodes and keeps exploding on further 6's. You could totally have that be the consequence for Imperial Gunners rolling a 1, they kill the A-Wing but it crashes into the Executor's bridge and it just happened to do enough damage to cripple the Executor. The converse case (where it's the A-wing pilot rolling) would be a bit harder unless they wanted a heroic suicide or something.

Quote from: Michael Gray;942821The Wild Die in d6 Star Wars is just one of your extra dice. If you roll a one the GM can intro a complication (or just take out the Wild Die and your highest die if they can't think of anything good), if you roll a 6 it explodes and keeps exploding on further 6's. You could totally have that be the consequence for Imperial Gunners rolling a 1, they kill the A-Wing but it crashes into the Executor's bridge and it just happened to do enough damage to cripple the Executor. The converse case (where it's the A-wing pilot rolling) would be a bit harder unless they wanted a heroic suicide or something.

Right right. I knew that about the Wild-Die. But I think mechanically this is beyond the mechanical-scope, narrative powers-be-damned, assigning that to a 1-in-6 chance of the Wild-Die as intended. Sure - maybe for the A-wing to eat shit and die.

Likewise - you'd have to have a massive stack of 6's exploding to have a ship-scale craft colliding with a Capital-scale vessel to cause it that kind of damage to lose control to that degree. I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I'm saying it's so ridiculously improbable (by the numbers) that the only power in the universe making that happen is the Narrative insertion.

I've run WEG Star Wars, my gut reaction is that this level of "narrative" control is not as emphasized in the system. I'd be interested to know how other WEG GM's used the Wild Die at their tables.

Quote from: estar;942706I played Star Fleet Battles and learned how to use MCIDS from rule E6 to defeat plasma torpedoes.. I puzzled out the intricacies of rule 29.5 in the Universe RPG. Your game rules has a the same stench and just as fucking obsessed with mechanics.

My feeling on this is that most of the rules in Star Fleet Battles are what I would call "actually about something in the game universe" and most of them I actually find interesting and welcome (except for the sections we felt were annoying, which we just didn't use with no unwelcome side-effects). Meanwhile the crunchy meta/narrative mechanics I've been reading about in these threads seems about equally complex, but harder for me to think about (and harder to want to) because they don't seem to be about anything in the setting, and are in fact about things I'm pretty sure I don't want in a game, and the things I do want in the game (things actually modeling the setting) seem missing. And also, I have done (and sometimes still do) some weird dice interpretation which includes vague abstract determination of what happens, and even "momentum", but I just do that in my head when using dice to add some external randomness to try to determine/intuit what happens with complex situations that I don't have rules or data for. That is, I think I can do and do do those kinds of roles without having any rules for them, but I tend to only do them for the parts of the game situation that are out-of-scope for rules. So ya, these narrative dice games seem like not having the part I usually like to focus on, and then adding complex rules for things that don't use complex rules. Except, having rules clearly is designed to allow structured play involving the players not just the GM, in the mushy abstract dice game, which is also something I can see being an interesting experiment that some people would and clearly do like, but that I'm sure isn't going to be something that can replace the literal sim rules that I like to focus on.

It is interesting to see though that the people who are into these games have written practically the exact same thing, but opposite. i.e.:
I say the narrative stuff is usually unwanted and doesn't need rules, can be improvised if wanted.
FFG players say the detailed literal rules are unwanted and don't need to exist, can be improvised if wanted.

Quote from: tenbones;942822Right right. I knew that about the Wild-Die. But I think mechanically this is beyond the mechanical-scope, narrative powers-be-damned, assigning that to a 1-in-6 chance of the Wild-Die as intended. Sure - maybe for the A-wing to eat shit and die.

Likewise - you'd have to have a massive stack of 6's exploding to have a ship-scale craft colliding with a Capital-scale vessel to cause it that kind of damage to lose control to that degree. I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I'm saying it's so ridiculously improbable (by the numbers) that the only power in the universe making that happen is the Narrative insertion.

I've run WEG Star Wars, my gut reaction is that this level of "narrative" control is not as emphasized in the system. I'd be interested to know how other WEG GM's used the Wild Die at their tables.

I would say that level of narrative control isn't really implied in FFG either, at least not on the level of taking out a 5 mile long cap ship with a snubfighter. For much the same reasons; you'd never do enough damage.

Quote from: tenbones;942822Right right. I knew that about the Wild-Die. But I think mechanically this is beyond the mechanical-scope, narrative powers-be-damned, assigning that to a 1-in-6 chance of the Wild-Die as intended. Sure - maybe for the A-wing to eat shit and die.

Likewise - you'd have to have a massive stack of 6's exploding to have a ship-scale craft colliding with a Capital-scale vessel to cause it that kind of damage to lose control to that degree. I'm not saying it couldn't happen - I'm saying it's so ridiculously improbable (by the numbers) that the only power in the universe making that happen is the Narrative insertion.

I've run WEG Star Wars, my gut reaction is that this level of "narrative" control is not as emphasized in the system. I'd be interested to know how other WEG GM's used the Wild Die at their tables.

So... as far as the A-Wing taking out the ISD, it's not really that unfeasible.

A-Wing going all-out gets hit and has to make a maneuver check while skimming along the surface of the ISD.  Fails the roll, collision result.  10D (All out speed) + 3D (Head-on collision) = 13D to the A-wing.  Puff. HOWEVER; the ISD takes the same damage from a head-on, so it's 13D-6D (scale mod) = 7D damage vs 7D hull. Assume the damage exceeds by 16, and you have yourself a mechanically occurring A-Wing ISD kill.

In the Narrative, George the GM says "The A-wing spins out of control into the bridge of the Star Destroyer.  A chain reaction bursts down through the command superstructure and reaches the power core.  You go out in a blaze of glory, having blasted hundreds of imperial scum to oblivion with you."  The players high-five.

However, the point of all that being something to do with the wild die and there not being wild dice on damage, well.. /shrug

Quote from: Panzerkraken;942833So... as far as the A-Wing taking out the ISD, it's not really that unfeasible.

A-Wing going all-out gets hit and has to make a maneuver check while skimming along the surface of the ISD.  Fails the roll, collision result.  10D (All out speed) + 3D (Head-on collision) = 13D to the A-wing.  Puff. HOWEVER; the ISD takes the same damage from a head-on, so it's 13D-6D (scale mod) = 7D damage vs 7D hull. Assume the damage exceeds by 16, and you have yourself a mechanically occurring A-Wing ISD kill.

However, the point of all that being something to do with the wild die and there not being wild dice on damage, well.. /shrug

So one A-wing can KO an ISD simply by damage on a good crash damage roll (without even hitting anyplace special)?

Quote from: Skarg;942836So one A-wing can KO an ISD simply by damage on a good crash damage roll (without even hitting anyplace special)?

Yup.

Statistically, though, the spread will probably only be enough to cause light damage.  Also, if the fighter is coming in and the ISD has a chance to put shields in the way, then it adds another 3D to the resist roll and would probably shrug the ram off.

Quote from: Panzerkraken;942838Yup.

Statistically, though, the spread will probably only be enough to cause light damage.  Also, if the fighter is coming in and the ISD has a chance to put shields in the way, then it adds another 3D to the resist roll and would probably shrug the ram off.

Of course if it's ALSO being engaged by a whole bunch of Mon Cal Cruisers...

Quote from: Panzerkraken;942838Yup.

Statistically, though, the spread will probably only be enough to cause light damage.  Also, if the fighter is coming in and the ISD has a chance to put shields in the way, then it adds another 3D to the resist roll and would probably shrug the ram off.

Yeah that's how I was looking at it. It would be a *very very* difficult roll to make.

And for the record - I was being fairly hyperbolic about this as an example for FFG's Star Wars. But I think that system would more aptly suit this than WEG's strictly by mechanics. Which is weird for me to say.

The problem, of course, with the example is there is literally, no chance, Zero, of an A-wing taking out the Executor.  What, there's no auxiliary bridge, no separate CIC?  So the event is completely for the purposes of and here's the thing, not even Story.  There was absolutely no need to take out the Executor, it would have been blown up with the Death Star.  How many normal ISDs were there, at least 20.  The several thousand TIE fighters those ISD's would launch were far more of a threat to a scattered small-ship fleet than the Executor.  

Someone wanted to film a giant arrow plowing into a Death Star so we get the A-wing fiasco.  That's it.

Even for a narrative system, that's a bit much, unless you're playing satirically. Maybe if you rolled 7 Triumphs.