Quote from: TrippyHippy;939370Well, that just sounds like grudge talk to me.

Trippy, if I wanted to post grudge talk I would post about how Matt Sprange promised all of the third party publishers that nothing would change with the licensing agreement, I would talk about how reviews of MgT2e have been astroturfed*, and I would talk about how the playtest was a joke**. I would also say that if you buy Mongoose Traveller 2, spend the least amount of money possible.

As it is, I think that the artwork sucks and could have been done a whole lot better as it has been done so even in MgT1e.

* Now, if you are looking at reviews on RPGNet, understand that Sam Wissa wrote the RPGNet review as Sam W, signed on to the playtest as Nerhesi, and was one of the people responsible for these playtest decisions he is reviewing. Why the man does not admit to his involvement with the playtest while giving 5 star reviews speaks volumes. Take any glowing review with a grain of salt until you can be sure of the reviewer.

** A lot of it was Driscoll trolling people who made good suggestions to improve the game and were ignored. The Core Rules do not have spacecraft construction rules in them, even though the majority of playtesters disagreed with this. Many of the rule changes are just so people will buy a new rulebook and do not add to the game in a constructive manner. The Core Rulebook is bigger, with more pages, but less content because the page spaces are taken up by graphic arts layout nonsense - don't look for the elegance of older Traveller editions, including MgT1e.

I was involved in the playtest too, and had more than my fair share of interaction with Driscoll. But this is all by-the-by for me.

For me, Traveller in it's current Mongoose format is terrific. I like the art and layout, I like the interfacing with software, I like that the rules are elegant and easy.  The supplements that are lined up are inspiring. I have limited interaction with the third parties material, but good luck to them (I do like Paul Elliot's work and I also am excited by Traveller: Mindjammer, but the rest I'm simply ambivalent about). I have complete rules for now for starship design with High Guard, which has the complete spaceship design system in it. I prefer it that way, insofar that most beginning groups don't actually design ships anyway - they just choose from the iconic ones on offer in the core - while I no longer have to flip through two books because one is an 'advanced' supplement to the other. Its better integrated now. The upcoming boxset will also include all the rules from the core too.

You don't have to like it, but for my purposes the new Mongoose Traveller is a five star effort and that is that. Holding a grudge against a game, for the reasons you cite, is just unwarranted. There are plenty of gamers that were excited about a new edition of Traveller, and you can always pick up Cepheus or Classic Traveller if you prefer. Just quit with the whole edition war bullshit.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939376You don't have to like it, but for my purposes the new Mongoose Traveller is a five star effort and that is that. Holding a grudge against a game, for the reasons you cite, is just unwarranted. There are plenty of gamers that were excited about a new edition of Traveller, and you can always pick up Cepheus or Classic Traveller if you prefer. Just quit with the whole edition war bullshit.

Bolding mine. OK, I get that you like this edition, great for you. I don't like this edition, great for me.

The only grudge I am holding is against the person who owns Mongoose Publishing and the decisions he made. I still advocate MgT1e. So quit with this edition war bullshit talk of yours. You are desperately trying to apply that label so that it shuts down the conversation from people who have opinions that do not think that MgT2e is all that and a bag of chips. Fact is, this new version that you love is one that several think could have been done better - and you don't like that. So fuck you and your intellectual dishonesty.

Quote from: RPGPundit;938979I'd also vote for Mongoose Traveller. Though I think the one I've got and recently ran a kick-ass campaign with was the 1st edition. it's super-similar to the classic traveller rules, . . .

Really? Please tell us more about the ways in which they're similar. Frex, how do the skill systems compare? How does combat compare?

Quote from: jeff37923;939381Bolding mine. OK, I get that you like this edition, great for you. I don't like this edition, great for me.

The only grudge I am holding is against the person who owns Mongoose Publishing and the decisions he made. I still advocate MgT1e. So quit with this edition war bullshit talk of yours. You are desperately trying to apply that label so that it shuts down the conversation from people who have opinions that do not think that MgT2e is all that and a bag of chips. Fact is, this new version that you love is one that several think could have been done better - and you don't like that. So fuck you and your intellectual dishonesty.

"Intellectual dishonesty"?! What sort of arsehole writes this shit about a game? Get over yourself.

If you want to play 1st edition, cool. Do so. You want to advocate your preference, cool. Do so. Nobody has argued anything else. But you're just talking smack as usual. You made a comparison before that MgT2 was the equivalent of D&D4, but it's just not for the basic reason that the rules are still about 99% compatible. You could run any setting based on MgT1 on MgT2 also. The Cepheus rules make a few updates too, and is free if you want, but it's still the same thing. This particular line of attack you are driving is unedifying and utterly boring, quite honestly.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939386"Intellectual dishonesty"?! What sort of arsehole writes this shit about a game? Get over yourself.

I will when you stop being intellectually dishonest.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939386You made a comparison before that MgT2 was the equivalent of D&D4

Yes, and if you weren't being willfully ignorant you would have realized that I was talking about how the game companies used a set of new rules to try and put the OGL genie back in the bottle. Just like how WotC tried to make a D&D game impossible for 3PP to use, which ended up creating Pathfinder. The MgT2e license bait-and-switch has similarly created an environment where the Cepheus Engine has come about.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939386but it's just not for the basic reason that the rules are still about 99% compatible. You could run any setting based on MgT1 on MgT2 also.

Unless you are using any starship created with MgT1e which are now incompatible with MgT2e thanks to the new power allocation rules.

So the Cepheus Engine is Trav's Pathfinder?

WTF must the clones has asstastic names?

Kudos to the Cepheus Engine dudes. I will have to download a copy.

Quote from: stuffis;939094Traveller grognards, do I have the right sense of it?

Yes, but Traveller can be a sci-fi toolbox too. So while Trav RAW can easily look like Alien or Firefly, you can take the system and setting to many different places and settings.

Quote from: Spinachcat;939391So the Cepheus Engine is Trav's Pathfinder?

Yes.

Quote from: Spinachcat;939391WTF must the clones has asstastic names?

It has to do with telomeres and genetics, I think.

Quote from: jeff37923;939387I will when you stop being intellectually dishonest.

I don't think either of us even knows what you mean by that. I say I like Mongoose's Traveller, so I must be being "intellectually dishonest" because you don't?! It's just another bigoted, fuck-witted argument.

QuoteYes, and if you weren't being willfully ignorant you would have realized that I was talking about how the game companies used a set of new rules to try and put the OGL genie back in the bottle. Just like how WotC tried to make a D&D game impossible for 3PP to use, which ended up creating Pathfinder. The MgT2e license bait-and-switch has similarly created an environment where the Cepheus Engine has come about.

Oh my god, I'm crying about this issue as you can see. If people want to make a retroclone because another company has a change of business plans, then fair enough. But to claim that it is some sort of heinous act that Mongoose want to control the terms of their own license is childish. If other companies wanted to keep Traveller OGL, then why didn't they dig out the cash for Marc Miller instead? And beyond anything else, the rules have hardly changed from one edition to the other in any significant way.....

QuoteUnless you are using any starship created with MgT1e which are now incompatible with MgT2e thanks to the new power allocation rules.

Well there we go. We all need to lose sleep on the matter, clearly.

And there's me still using Classic modules with it and all....

The Cepheus Engine is fueled by the hate for Mongoose is all.

Quote from: Spinachcat;939391WTF must the clones has asstastic names?

Cepheus is a constellation.

QuoteYes, but Traveller can be a sci-fi toolbox too. So while Trav RAW can easily look like Alien or Firefly, you can take the system and setting to many different places and settings.

Correct. Indeed, the default Imperium setting is so diverse and wide ranging that you can effectively play any sci-fi tale in it while staying in cannon.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939399Indeed, the default Imperium setting is so diverse and wide ranging that you can effectively play any sci-fi tale in it while staying in cannon.

Or you can use the rules in pretty much every edition (I've never seen one without them, but I suspect they've been omitted from MgT2 along with starship creation) to roll up your own (sub)sector and ignore the Third Imperium entirely.  There's no reason to shoehorn your campaign into the 3I unless you think it will add something to your game.

Quote from: nDervish;939402Or you can use the rules in pretty much every edition (I've never seen one without them, but I suspect they've been omitted from MgT2 along with starship creation) to roll up your own (sub)sector and ignore the Third Imperium entirely.  There's no reason to shoehorn your campaign into the 3I unless you think it will add something to your game.

The rules for sub-sector design are 100% still there in the corebook, but you are right about everything else.

With regards to the starship creation they've instead included a mini-catalogue of spacecraft (19 in total) to choose from, and then put all the starship creation rules themselves into the High Guard book. All other sections of the rules from 1e remain as before (although they only detail two alien species in chargen beyond humanity).

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;939395The Cepheus Engine is fueled by the hate for Mongoose is all.

Now that's funny!

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939394I don't think either of us even knows what you mean by that. I say I like Mongoose's Traveller, so I must be being "intellectually dishonest" because you don't?! It's just another bigoted, fuck-witted argument.

Yes, intellectual dishonesty, because you are translating "I don't like this version" into "Ohmifuckinggod Edition War" which is blowing it completely out of proportion. Quit being a drama queen you insufferable prat.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939394Oh my god, I'm crying about this issue as you can see. If people want to make a retroclone because another company has a change of business plans, then fair enough. But to claim that it is some sort of heinous act that Mongoose want to control the terms of their own license is childish.

This is a good example of your intellectual dishonesty. The business relationship between Mongoose and the third party publishers was a change of plans for Mongoose, but was a lie told to the third party publishers about what was actually going on with the license which caused a tremendous shake up amongst them. You calling it a heinous act is you being melodramatic again, but setting up a license that would require a creator to surrender all of their IP rights and a good chunk of profits to Mongoose when they hadn't had to for years before? It comes close to that.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939394Well there we go. We all need to lose sleep on the matter, clearly.

Only if you do not wish to pay twice for a complete game system that isn't crippleware. I'll just drop that in the same round file as Shaw Driscoll's comment on having a separate book for starships.

Quote from: Shawn DriscollWell, I don't create ships or use them very often in my games so I don't care.

Quote from: TrippyHippy;939394And there's me still using Classic modules with it and all....

How much work have you had to put in to determine the power points? Or do you just ignore them?