Thirty years of AD&D 1e and we never gave XP for gold. The main DM decided that treasure was it's own reward and I was inclined to agree with him. Mind you, he also used a kind of Milestone system for advancement. Like if I had a character who was enrolled in the Magic User College and they would have tests and stuff and if you passed, you would level up. He had a method for advancing inactive characters as well. In our games we had a big campaign with rotating DMs. Adventures were off the cuff but somewhere in the Empire. Many of them were missions for the Crown. So you could have a low level character deployed to a garrison out in the middle of nowhere and when you play that character again in six months, they may have gone up a level or two. He had tables he made for rolling to see how well you did during training and the like. Same with the Magic User College and some of the religious temples.

When I ran 2e, 3.5e and d20 Star Wars RCR experience was based on encounters. I gave out nothing for treasure. Don't worry, those guys weren't hurting for XP. They were hurting for other reasons.

I also played quite a bit of BECMI/RC D&D and I think we did award XP for gold. I still have a particularly successful Ochalean Thief and that XP boost was great especially when you are playing in smaller groups or solo. I have DMed games for this and though I am personally against XP for gold I did it in the way the main DM wanted. It was his game and I wasn't going to argue my PCs out of extra XP. I only DMed because it was the only way the main DM could play. He'd even set up the scenarios for me to run, which were often big battles.

I think it really depends on how fast you want to advance your characters. I like Milestones, but I don't think I would use them exclusively because I feel like that would be cheating characters. They should at the very least get XP for the stuff they fight and kill. However, I award XP for other things. Like if you don't kill an enemy but you do defeat it. And if that defeat is a rout, a surrender or a ceasefire will affect what the reward is. You might get 1/4 to 1/2 XP if the baddy runs away, and if they surrender you might get 1/2 to full XP, unless it's like you walk in a room and they just throw their hands up in the air, in which case maybe they'll get some XP for the comedy. Maybe not.

We've always used milestones, they just weren't defined as such. It was like if a major event happened for your character. The completion of a story arc, finding some precious family heirloom, setting up a stronghold. Whatever we thought was an important defining moment for the character, particularly during games that were RP heavy and combat light. A character who ends a war using diplomacy instead of force of arms should get some XP even if they didn't grind it out on the battlefield because that is an important and defining event for the game world.

That said I will also arbitrarily award levels to characters if I feel the situation warrants it. Ryan comes over to play. He brings his character he hasn't used in two years. We like Ryan and the group's characters are higher level now. So I boost his character. It depends on the disparity. I never raise a character level past the lowest level character in the group and sometimes I go one level below that. I do account for how much XP that character already had. So if it was a few hundred XP above third level, and I raise the character to level 6, the XP will be adjusted to a few hundred XP above level six. But this is only in circumstances where the level boost makes sense plot wise. The player and character may not be around but in a living world they are still theoretically doing something.

So blah blah in summary.

XP for killing stuff is good.
XP for not killing stuff but defeating it is also good, to a lesser extent.
XP for gold is sometimes good, but I prefer not to use it.
Milestones are good, but I'll use them to supplement XP and not replace it.

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

In AD&D you got EXP for gold and items turned in. (Or just items?) The rationale for items was that keeping the item and using it was its own reward. So perhaps that applies to gold too? I'll dig out the DMG and see what it says. Though I'll guess beforehand that its going to be left pretty ambiguous.

Will check 2e and BX too but pretty sure BX doesnt say.

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

In AD&D you got EXP for gold and items turned in. (Or just items?) The rationale for items was that keeping the item and using it was its own reward. So perhaps that applies to gold too? I'll dig out the DMG and see what it says. Though I'll guess beforehand that its going to be left pretty ambiguous.

Will check 2e and BX too but pretty sure BX doesnt say.

XP for loot conjures many humorous questions to mind.

If someone robs you, do you lose XP equal to the gold? If not, can two thief PCs rob each other back and forth to keep gaining XP from the same loot?

If a GM runs multiple PC groups, can they steal from & loot each other for XP?

Do you lose XP if you get gypped buying something?

Do you gain XP for buying something on sale?

If you give your daughter a large dowry and she gets married, does she gain XP for it?

Do moneylenders gain XP for the interest they collect?

When a village is pillaged, does the king lose XP equal to the gold value of the lost income?

Rifts. RAW at the end of the session when I send out the wrap up e-mail.

XP comes from treasure: 1 gp = 1XP. This gold is then donated to a temple, used to buy laboratory equipment, expanding a library, paying off city officials, as fees for training, or pissing it away at the tavern. Something Class-related that explains their new competency.

XP is also awarded for completing any adventure milestones or quests the PCs decided to undertake. I don't typically bother handing out XP for defeating monsters.

Quote from: Omega;933164In AD&D you got EXP for gold and items turned in. (Or just items?) The rationale for items was that keeping the item and using it was its own reward. So perhaps that applies to gold too? I'll dig out the DMG and see what it says. Though I'll guess beforehand that its going to be left pretty ambiguous.

Will check 2e and BX too but pretty sure BX doesnt say.

Thanks for looking.

Quote from: Skarg;933185XP for loot conjures many humorous questions to mind.

If someone robs you, do you lose XP equal to the gold?

If not, can two thief PCs rob each other back and forth to keep gaining XP from the same loot?

If a GM runs multiple PC groups, can they steal from & loot each other for XP?

Do you lose XP if you get gypped buying something?

Do you gain XP for buying something on sale?

If you give your daughter a large dowry and she gets married, does she gain XP for it?

Do moneylenders gain XP for the interest they collect?

When a village is pillaged, does the king lose XP equal to the gold value of the lost income?

1: Only if you didnt actually read the rules...

2: No. Same as you dont lose EXP for running away from a fight. You dont lose EXP for being robbed, spending money, etc.

3: No. AD&D states there has to be an actual challenge to gain the EXP. And an easy gain can vastly diminish the value of the GP to XP ratio.

4: If they fight eachother. Use of common sense is advised.

5-6-7-8: No.

9: No. (Though Birthright may have some rules for EXP from managing a kingdom?)

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

Ok. Pulled out the AD&D DMG and it says there that EXP for gold is basically a mechanic to abstract what would otherwise be covered in day to day training and upkeep. EXP for gol was gained only if the PCs can transport it out of the dungeon and keep it. While not stated. Its apparent that this hoarded gold is then likely spent on the level up fee. So coin eventually converts into training.

In BX no explanation is given. There is though no EXP gained for magic items and no level up fee or even training time.

2e makes EXP for gold and training fees and training itself all optional. It does though note that PC advancement is intentionally flexible as to how fast or slow the rate is. Pretty much same with 3e.

So it more or less plays through with my theory that the gold EXP then converts into training and from 2e onwards training was removed and so was the exp for gold and treasure.

Quote from: Omega;933231Ok. Pulled out the AD&D DMG and it says there that EXP for gold is basically a mechanic to abstract what would otherwise be covered in day to day training and upkeep. EXP for gol was gained only if the PCs can transport it out of the dungeon and keep it. While not stated. Its apparent that this hoarded gold is then likely spent on the level up fee. So coin eventually converts into training.

In BX no explanation is given. There is though no EXP gained for magic items and no level up fee or even training time.

2e makes EXP for gold and training fees and training itself all optional. It does though note that PC advancement is intentionally flexible as to how fast or slow the rate is. Pretty much same with 3e.

So it more or less plays through with my theory that the gold EXP then converts into training and from 2e onwards training was removed and so was the exp for gold and treasure.

If gold is spent on training, do you have to spend it to level up?

Quote from: Ashakyre;933330If gold is spent on training, do you have to spend it to level up?

Thats what meant. To level up you spend something like 1500 x level per week (1-4 depending on how the player played the character) spent to reach the next level. No training. No level up. After name level though you did not have to go find a teacher. But still had to fork over the cash.

So to hit level 5 youd need 7500 gp per week of training. If you somehow got a rating of 2 from slightly off play for example then thats 2 weeks of training and 15000 gp.

Sounds to me then like XP for gold was meant to be a fun approximation for people who didn't mind using that. Like so many other minimal/stub/odd/quick/easy/simple/not-very-logical game mechanics I remember from the White Box.

Currently, Gods of the Fall. Players get experience for GM Intrusions and discoveries. Since they're playing gods, I can be pretty liberal with XP and no worry about things getting crazy. Because they already are. They're also amazing players who use their XP to enhance the game, which is another reason I'm fine with dropping 15+ (which is a lot) XP at times.

Quote from: Skarg;933346Sounds to me then like XP for gold was meant to be a fun approximation for people who didn't mind using that. Like so many other minimal/stub/odd/quick/easy/simple/not-very-logical game mechanics I remember from the White Box.

It also was a way to make sure that wandering monsters were a hazard and a pain in the ass instead of easy XP on the hoof, and to give players a boost towards building their stronghold.

In the early days of the Dark Albion campaign, my players and I both quickly realized the fatal flaws of the "xp for gold" or even "Xp for killing" mechanics of D&D in a setting like Albion, where lust for gold was completely counter to what maybe half of the PCs ought to be doing.

At the same time, I quickly discarded other possible ideas, because any of them could ultimately be gameable, making players try to play counter to what their character would actually do, just to get more XP.  In the end, I went back to an old practice I had, and started awarding XP purely on the basis of 'adventure completed', plus a small bonus for whoever did the best job of roleplaying that session. My players don't seem to mind that at all.