TheRPGSite

Here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35549-Is-XP-advancement-in-character) we have a post about how players roleplay character's experience and how that is reflected in setting.

Here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35542-Incentivizing-Roleplaying-Behavior-A-Bad-Idea-(Mark-Brantingham)) we have an article suggesting a way to remove metagame considerations in handing out experience.

So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

I'm currently running Mythras.  Mythras is a RuneQuest based system that uses Experience Rolls (ER) which allow you attempt to improve a skill, buy new skills, learn spells, etc.  Some uses may take more than one ER.  The suggestion is awarding 2-4 per session (perhaps with a bonus based on stats) depending on a lot of things, but it is suggested that all characters earn the same number of ERs.

So far I've been pretty much following the recommendation.  With a number from 2-4, possibly with a +1, there's not a whole lot of range, so what determines a 2pt session vs. a 4pt session?  Well, now that I think about it, I've been kind of naturally doing it based on time played like that article above.  Not a strict rule of X amount of time per ER, but time played is how it's ending up getting handed out.  I've been factoring that in without really thinking about it.  There's no voting for MVP, there's no "roleplaying awards", "best joke bonus", "clever plan award" or anything like that...just roleplaying.  I'll have to say, it's been working out.

As to the other part, the IC representation of experience, well, I have hacked the system a little bit, in that higher skills cost more ER to raise than lower skills, and if you have used the skill that session, it costs less.  Now with the numbers so small, a lot of the time, there isn't a cost difference, but sometimes there is an ER cost difference based on use, which brings the system a little bit more in line with the old RQ.  Now as Bren and I were discussing in that article thread, I am leaving myself open to Skill Spam, as players try a wide variety of skills with the meta-knowledge that it will lead to a reduced cost for growth.  So far, however, I'm not seeing it (because I have good players) and the amount you receive is relatively small to begin with.  The characters are more worried about coin and reputation then ERs (like good S&S players should).  In any case, it being a skill system improving individual skills more gradually, there is no DING! to have to worry about and rationalize IC.

I run OD&D.

At the end of the session I hand out XP based on how much gold each player got.

We don't worry about the "IC" aspects in the slightest.

Well, by the book mostly.  I tend to use Rolemaster's idea points to balance out the rewards among the party.  In GURPS by the book means just wing it so that's mostly what I do in GURPS.  In D&D I don't like handing out too much gold and lean to hierocentric exchange so the king often hands out thousands of GP in free training.  But even in D&D I require training to exchange gold to XP.  In all honesty, I much prefer a system that spells it all out like Rolemaster.  I like BRP's experience rolls in theory, but in practice they reward cheaters.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930373Here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35549-Is-XP-advancement-in-character) we have a post about how players roleplay character's experience and how that is reflected in setting.

Here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35542-Incentivizing-Roleplaying-Behavior-A-Bad-Idea-(Mark-Brantingham)) we have an article suggesting a way to remove metagame considerations in handing out experience.

So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?

None. :(

Quote2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

Last game I ran was Dungeon Crawl Classics over Skype. I awarded xp for every encounter of note. I  put a notation in my notes for every encounter of what xp it was worth, put a checkmark in the margin if the characters dealt with the encounter. (No matter how they resolved it) and tallied up the xp at the end of the session, and handed out a lump sum.
I usually inform the players of my xp approach sometime at the beginning of a campaign, so they know if they did anything interesting, they were getting xp for it.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930373So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

1: Currently 5e D&D and a hopefully new Star Frontiers campaign.
2: In 5e I hand out EXP at the end of a completed mission. Or at strategic segments of a longer campaign. In SF it is much the same. At the end of a mission of campaign segment. Though really EXP in SF is really skill points.

X: The players get extra EXP for good play and interesting solutions to problems. They dont know that though.

Quote from: David Johansen;930382I like BRP's experience rolls in theory, but in practice they reward cheaters.

That's what we talked about in that article thread.  If you hand out ERs based on session or time then there's no "cheating" really.  No way to cheat, or really even think about experience at all, because the only way you can control it is to play longer (and even that goes away if it's just per session).

Quote from: Omega;9303881: Currently 5e D&D and a hopefully new Star Frontiers campaign.
2: In 5e I hand out EXP at the end of a completed mission. Or at strategic segments of a longer campaign. In SF it is much the same. At the end of a mission of campaign segment. Though really EXP in SF is really skill points.

X: The players get extra EXP for good play and interesting solutions to problems. They dont know that though.

For 5e, do you give experience for "defeating" an encounter without killing it?

Quote from: CRKrueger;930390For 5e, do you give experience for "defeating" an encounter without killing it?

Yes. The DMG even mentions that somewhere. EXP for negotiating, sneaking, avoiding, capturing, rescuing, whatevering.

Like this (https://honorandintrigue.blogspot.com/2016/10/campaign-statistics.html).

When I ran AD&D, I handed out exp pure RAW, gold and monster exp.
When I ran Shadowrun, I handed out karma pure RAW, by mission objectives, and maybe a little RP or some other form of success award kicker.
When I ran RM/MERP I did the same thing, RAW, even keeping track of first encounters, etc...

So I guess up to now, I've mostly I stuck to By the Book when it comes to different game's exp handouts with maybe some minor hacks.

Quote from: Bren;930394Like this (https://honorandintrigue.blogspot.com/2016/10/campaign-statistics.html).

4 to 1 that's a pretty good ratio.  I've seen some intense city campaigns I've played in take a couple months to go through a couple days of campaign time.

I see your AP average is from 1.6 to 3.3 so obviously it is variable from session to session.  Is it variable from player to player for any given session?  Do you hand out RP awards, or any type of OOC awards, like MVP Vote or Best Joke or anything like that?

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303974 to 1 that's a pretty good ratio.  I've seen some intense city campaigns I've played in take a couple months to go through a couple days of campaign time.

I've been trying to shift the ratio close to 1-1, but it is a struggle.

QuoteI see your AP average is from 1.6 to 3.3 so obviously it is variable from session to session.  Is it variable from player to player for any given session?  Do you hand out RP awards, or any type of OOC awards, like MVP Vote or Best Joke or anything like that?

Yes and yes.

• Sometimes I give an extra point if the player did something outstandingly entertaining, in character, apropos for the period, or otherwise enjoyable. Same if someone comes up with an innovative approach or solution to getting something done in the session. No voting. Just me ruling. That probably happens once every five sessions or less.
• I'll give an extra point if players do something meaningful on their own time like write up an actual letter to a friend or a report their PC submitted to their superior. It wouldn't often be meaningful and players seldom do that anyway, so a careless carpenter could count the number of times I give out those awards on one or two hands.  
• Rarely I'll adjust the point award if there is a big discrepancy in how active players and their PCs are during a single session. Like if one player is only there for half the session or something.
• I add an extra point or maybe two if the session has intense and dangerous combat or if it's some sort of successful conclusion or resolution to an multi-session arc. In effect it is a kind of completion bonus.That probably occurs every 5 or 10 sessions.

Another cause of variation is that I give less experience per session as the PCs become more experienced. You can see that in the scoring. PCs who have been 60%+ of the sessions tend to average < 2 points per session. Characters who have been in 10-25% of the sessions are about a point or half a point higher on average. Characters who have only been in a handful of sessions average around 3 points.

• For the really experienced characters 1 Advancement Point per session is my default expectation. If the session is really active, dangerous, or concludes an arc I'll add a point. Sometimes even +2 points.
• For not too experienced characters my default expectation is about 2 APs per session with active sessions at 2-4 points.
• Max award for a single session is 6 points. That's really rare. Like maybe five or six times total.

Note that APs get awarded after the session is over or the award gets announced at the beginning of the next session. So awards are never in-character.

Oh, one other thing. Sometimes players run NPCs. Usually if their PC isn't in the session or scene. I count that time and activity the same as if they were running their PC so they get APs awarded. But the award is either tied to the NPC, like when a player runs their PC's trusted companion - think Planchet in the Three Musketeers. Or the award is given to the player to use on any of their PCs or trusted companions (if they have one).

And I do let the players spend AP from a PC to improve that PC's trusted companion(s).

Mostly running Magic World, and occasionally DCC.
For Magic World I do the standard BRP thing with XP rolls earned for skills used... both successfully and for fumbles. Just about anything can be trained up while in a stable place with the proper resources.

Quote from: David Johansen;930382I like BRP's experience rolls in theory, but in practice they reward cheaters.

So maybe don't play with cheaters? I don't know... it's a problem people make noise about that I've never run into.

For DCC there's XP for whatever seems like a challenge... like, you can get XP for peacefully defusing a potential combat, for pulling off schemes, for succeeding or failing really badly at something hard (if you survive it). Harder stuff yields more XP and easy peasy stuff yields little or none. XP gets handed out as challenges complete but you need to get somewhere safe/stable to actually level up (time to relax and reflect).

Quote from: CRKrueger;930395When I ran AD&D, I handed out exp pure RAW, gold and monster exp.

er? Pretty sure AD&D has a section for giving EXP out based on performance as well as the standard kill/bypass + loot.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930373So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

I am currently running a game of d6 Star Wars and Traveller. I hand out experience the same way with both games.

I buy several large bags of skittles. When a player does something worth an experience point, I place a skittle in a bowl in front of them. At the end of the game session, any uneaten skittles are considered to be experience points and placed on their character sheet.

For treasure, I buy a large bag of chocolate coins wrapped in gold foil.....:p

What I actually do is give out the same amount for each player based upon their group roleplaying and teamwork. If a player has done an outstanding job in the game and whose decisions and actions were crucial to the adventure being resolved well, that one gets an extra point or two.

In OD&D, I just hand out levels. I can't care enough about XP. If you succeed the adventure (usually 2-3 sessions) and survive, boom, go up a level. Since Raise Dead costs a level, its been no issue having Raise Dead spells in the game.

Since my games are high mortality and they only gain levels when they succeed, the quick leveling works in my favor as it drives risk vs. reward. Nobody complains when they level up sooner than expected.

Quote from: Omega;930409er? Pretty sure AD&D has a section for giving EXP out based on performance as well as the standard kill/bypass + loot.

There is a section on "Performance" based on how well the character adhered to their alignment, but it affects training time, not XP awarded.

There also is a section that recommends you adjust the numerical amount of awarded experience based on ratio of Hit Dice to Character Level.

As far as what gives you those raw numbers...Gold and Encounters.  When I say AD&D I mean 1e, who cares what 2e did. :D

I run RuneQuest (3ish) and hand out experience on a Famine/Feast basis, so they don't get Experience for ages, until they start complaining, then they get a dump of points. So, maybe 1D6+6 after 6 sessions, perhaps 1D10+10 following a major HeroQuest.

We use Hero Points as Experience Points, in the same way that HeroQuest does, so the PCs get 1 Hero Point at the start of every session, so that lets them tick over.

Occasionally, I will hand out a Hero Point for doing something particularly impressive, but that needs to be relative to the rest of the game, so shutting down a Chaos Void is a regular occurrence now and wouldn't merit a Hero Point.

I don't give higher points just because the PCs have defeated something powerful - I think they got 1D10+10 for turning the Crimson Bat inside out, but that was part of the Dragonrise HeroQuest. Doing the same to Gloomshark didn't get them anything extra, as that was a copy of what they had done to the Crimson Bat.

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303731. What games are you currently running?

Cthulhu by Gaslight. Just the one game - I don't have the spare time to run multiple campaigns.

Quote2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

Pretty much the default CoC way. Experience checks are given when characters succeed at skills in difficult situations. Then, at the end of a mystery (which usually averages about every 2 to 3 sessions), players roll D100 for every check to determine if they go up 1D10 skill points in that skill. The check is erased whether they're successful or not.

I also make use of training rules. An investigator can study a field of interest during a period of downtime (between mysteries), to increase his proficiency at a skill. (Alternatively, an investigator can use downtime to get psychological treatment, or to devote time to studying Mythos tomes).

Quote from: Simlasa;930407So maybe don't play with cheaters? I don't know... it's a problem people make noise about that I've never run into.

Yeah, I've never seen the BRP experience system encourage outright-cheaters. "Check hunters", I've encountered on occasion. But that can be remedied with a swift, "knock that shit off".

I'm currently running Beyond the Wall. I total up experience awards for monsters, add an adjustment for traps, to give a base amount for the adventure then give bonuses for good or clever roleplaying. Treasure spent on living a heroic lifestyle or improving the lot of the home village also gives EXP, but gold spent on better armor or other things that give mechanical advantages to the character does not.

In a nut shell genre emulation for heroes gets EXP. It is somewhat Princesses and Pladins in the definition of "heroes".

Currently running Godbound, where experience is somewhat complicated by the fact that leveling up requires both the accumulation of Experience Points and the spending of Domain Points — Godbound sort of thrusts you into the domain management game very early on and expects you to play it in order to advance.

Right now I'm giving out XP awards and tallying DP spenditures at the end of each session.

5ed but same for third.
They start at level 1 they gain a level every session til they hit 3.  After that it slows down.  Probably when they complete an arc or a quest. I want to keep them between 5 and 12 for a long time so essicentially they level when i want them to.  I tell the players up front.

When i ran a home brew sci fi.  After about 3 sessions i let the players choose a new edge.

5ed but same for third.
They start at level 1 they gain a level every session til they hit 3.  After that it slows down.  Probably when they complete an arc or a quest. I want to keep them between 5 and 12 for a long time so essicentially they level when i want them to.  I tell the players up front.

When i ran a home brew sci fi.  After about 3 sessions i let the players choose a new edge.

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303731. What games are you currently running?

Earthdawn 1e, well technically it's EDC, but using 3e Step Chart

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303732. How do you handle the experience in that game?

Modified.  One of the players is leaving in January, so we are increasing Legend Points awards to level faster.

Quote from: K Peterson;930429Pretty much the default CoC way. Experience checks are given when characters succeed at skills in difficult situations. Then, at the end of a mystery (which usually averages about every 2 to 3 sessions), players roll D100 for every check to determine if they go up 1D10 skill points in that skill. The check is erased whether they're successful or not.

This is pretty close to what I do for CoC. One difference is that I use 1D6% increases not 1D10%. Another difference is that what I would call a mystery nearly always takes more than 2-3 sessions to play out.

Quote from: Bren;930447This is pretty close to what I do for CoC. One difference is that I use 1D6% increases not 1D10%..

1D6% was the standard for earlier editions of CoC. 1st-3rd edition used it; it was changed to 1D10 by 5th edition. (And possibly by 4th - I never owned that edition, so I've got no idea if that was the turning point.

QuoteAnother difference is that what I would call a mystery nearly always takes more than 2-3 sessions to play out

It's varied for me based on the group of players. My current group are pretty skilled at deciphering clues and getting to the heart of the matter without much time wasted. We also tend to play through fairly contained scenarios and not play the epic campaigns. After 2-3 sessions, the mysteries are either solved or things have spiraled out of control that we end up with an investigator body count.

Another group I played with checked every lead, exhausted every path, flailed around not understanding some clues, and proceeded at a pretty glacial pace. Mysteries definitely stretched longer than 2-3 sessions. Though, the more time that passed the more challenging things became, because cultists' plans would come to fruition, witnesses and contacts end up dead or committed to a sanitarium, etc.

Quote from: K Peterson;930455My current group are pretty skilled at deciphering clues and getting to the heart of the matter without much time wasted. We also tend to play through fairly contained scenarios and not play the epic campaigns.

My players may not be as good as yours at focused, on track investigation. Also none of my current players spend appreciable time pondering mysteries or clues between sessions. Of course part of the problem is undoubtedly me since I like epic campaigns, convolution, and complicated situations.

Currently I'm not running anything, but most recently I've run D&D 5E and Terracide for Savage Worlds.

I've stopped using XP; now I just have everyone level up or take an edge when they've reached an appropriate milestone, or after a couple of sessions.

I'm running 5th ed D&D, but I'm just using level advancement as GM fiat, which amounts to a level advance every 4-5 sessions now.

(I've played with XP plenty, but I felt that XP calculation and tracking weren't adding anything to the game.)

In my historical ACKS game, I didn't hand out XP at all. At whatever juncture seemed appropriate, everyone levelled up at the same time. No tracking anything.

Quote from: jhkim;930502I'm running 5th ed D&D, but I'm just using level advancement as GM fiat, which amounts to a level advance every 4-5 sessions now.

(I've played with XP plenty, but I felt that XP calculation and tracking weren't adding anything to the game.)

Did you specifically do it to slow down the "Level Train Has No Brakes" speed of 5e or just sick of doing exp?

Quote from: Kiero;930515In my historical ACKS game, I didn't hand out XP at all. At whatever juncture seemed appropriate, everyone levelled up at the same time. No tracking anything.

For both of you, what are some examples of an appropriate juncture. I imagine places where there is a decent break in pace to allow for training, etc., and/or after major goals being completed in the setting?

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303731. What games are you currently running?

Currently running 5e (Storm King's Thunder) in organized play at a game store, and I've run several of the Adventurers' League releases for the season at another store.

Quote2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

AL has fairly specific rules for awarding experience. Storm King's Thunder used one level per milestone in the initial "A Great Upheaval" chapter (taking characters from 1st to 5th level in a four stage adventure), but in the later part of the campaign book, the AL rules are to award XP for combat with opponents only. Achieving other objectives may give other rewards (money, magic items, NPC help) or lead to fights worth more XP and perhaps make those fights easier (e.g., getting surprise, not being ambushed, facing a large force a few at a time, succeeding with some clever plan, or some other advantage), since that remains at the DM's discretion. The published adventures have some per character XP for objectives and otherwise divide up XP for defeating enemies, with a minimum and a maximum amount of XP given.

I would probably do a lot of things differently in a non-AL campaign, including what to award XP for, the actual amounts probably wouldn't be so different; I'm happy enough with the rate of advance in levels.

I am currently running two Pathfinder adventure paths and Adventurer's League.  For Adventurers League it...^that.  For the adventure paths, I don't bother with XP at all.  They say what level PCs are expected to be at certain points in the book.  When they get to that point, they go up to that level.  It simplifies bookkeeping.  When I run Mutants & Masterminds, I award 2-3 points per session.  I may reduce that in the upcoming campaign to reduce the speed of advancement.  I want to keep the game lower powered and smaller in scope than the last one.

I just wrapped up a D&D 5E game in September, and where I had been doing the Experience RAW in the start, I eventually just started announcing level ups every few sessions. It made it easier to design ahead if I knew what level the party would be. I still preferred experience RAW, but the group attendance was all over the place due to its weekend placement, so it became a problem to track experience strictly. I did allow Proficiencies to be learned by in game events, as the book suggested.

I've tried my hands at running experience RAW, and doing a less structured experience allotment, and find that RAW almost always work better. I'm currently finishing up material for a Mythras game, and plan to run it RAW as well. My one friend is replacing my bi-weekendly D&D game with Palladium Fantasy (2nd ed), and always just hands out a level each full session. I have to admit, while its fun to level up at first, you have no sense of earning it at all.

In game, I will rarely call attention to how experience is earned and accumulated. I find its best left as a strictly meta game concept. We know people learn as time goes on, and learn from encounters and experiences. Part of experience system are a meta game carrot on a stick (engage in the story and contribute or you get no reward). The only EXP system that comes to mind where the experience awards seem to truly fit the play is the BRP style games.

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303731. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

I play Lejendary Adventure more than anything. The system itself seems to avoid a lot of the issues here.

First, it's a skill-based percentile system. You're improving one skill at a time, one percentage point at a time. In terms of character's experience, it's not really noticeable.

XP is awarded in both a general pool as well as specific to skills, and there is a soft requirement for skill-specific XP. I say soft requirement, because you can get around that with training. So which skills the character advances in makes sense. Further, skill-specific XP can be earned for training and/or downtime activity.

This is how the thing generally plays. There are exceptions. If a series of sessions are part of one big adventure, typically a large pool of XP is awarded for the adventure as a whole. The advancement might be more apparent in-character here. Also specific experiences just instantly award one or more points or a whole new skill. Those are also noticeable.

Finally, there is a pseudo class-and-level system built in. Orders are primarily social constructs, so advancement in them is very much experienced in-character. Advancement is based on skill attained, and presumably the orders have a way of testing and evaluating skills, which is assumed to occur during down-time.

Now I have to decide if I want to hand out some "You Showed Up" EXP for my first campaign session of a new campaign. We got through character generation and the party has just arrived at the dungeon entrance. Not much was done, but clearing the small goblin lair dungeon won't net a lot of XP. I don't want advancement to be too glacial, but don't want it to be too fast either.

Quote from: DavetheLost;930696Now I have to decide if I want to hand out some "You Showed Up" EXP for my first campaign session of a new campaign. We got through character generation and the party has just arrived at the dungeon entrance. Not much was done, but clearing the small goblin lair dungeon won't net a lot of XP. I don't want advancement to be too glacial, but don't want it to be too fast either.

My Super BtB AD&D 1st Ed campaign starting from level 1, it was fine just using everything as-is. I mean one thing, which I suppose might be easier said than done, but there's no substitute for it, is that the adventure itself should be so interesting no one really even cares about XP and leveling. But the other thing to consider is players generally don't get to start with all their ideal array of equipment with the measly starting funds they get. So even relatively small monetary rewards early on keep players moving at a substantial rate towards their goals of normal gear upgrades. By the time they're done with that fun, the characters are already hitting level two, after which, level 2 to level 3 requires about the same amount of XP, only now the characters are twice as powerful. The game really picks up from there. I also find in the level 3 to 8 range, D&D is just so much fun that it's not that big a deal if it takes a while to level.

Quote from: CRKrueger;9303731. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

I'm currently only running a limited GURPS/houserules games, and a couple of experiments.

I ignore most of the GURPS character advancement guidelines (especially giving points per session and for good roleplaying).

I have players tally their uses of skills during play and game-time hours spent in skill use, training & practice. I also have a system for rating the ability of combat opponents and the difficulty of challenges, which gets compared to a PC's own ability to determine how much experience is earned by facing those foes/challenges.

All experience/use/practice/training applies to something relevant, so no killing things to improve literacy, and no stealing gold to learn the Fireball spell, and also no swordfighting to improve bow skill. There are however some generic combat skills that combat experience in general can apply to - such as Combat Sense and Tactics. And some experience I do allow to apply to anything that doesn't require special training. So yeah, combat and adventure may help you develop genius insights to improve yourself, but that's a small fraction compared to the effects of actually using/studying/practicing/training.

Quote from: jhkim;930502I'm running 5th ed D&D, but I'm just using level advancement as GM fiat, which amounts to a level advance every 4-5 sessions now.

(I've played with XP plenty, but I felt that XP calculation and tracking weren't adding anything to the game.)

Quote from: CRKrueger;930523Did you specifically do it to slow down the "Level Train Has No Brakes" speed of 5e or just sick of doing exp?

For both of you, what are some examples of an appropriate juncture. I imagine places where there is a decent break in pace to allow for training, etc., and/or after major goals being completed in the setting?

1) Both, really. I have slowed down more than is implied in the base rules, I think, which I consider a good thing. Also, tracking XP felt like arbitrary point-counting that wasn't adding to the game. As a player, I didn't feel that calculated XP awards were an accurate measure of how well we did or the difficulty we faced.

2) Junctures for me are just a little more downtime. So if they finish with a dungeon and are hunkering down for a few days of downtime, or similar. My campaign is a post-apocalyptic scenario similar to The Walking Dead or such, where dragons have conquered the whole surface world - so I don't do long downtime or going back to the city to train.

I play D&D 5e.

I hand out a baseline of 200 to 300 XP each player per session, no matter what. So if they spend 3 sessions just dicking around in a bar, they get experience, but if they defeat a monster, they still get 300. It evens out in the end. This way they can do whatever they want without worrying about experiencing forcing just one approach.

When they achieve a major milestone or beat a significant enemy I usually add in a bonus amount.

I am running a Castles & Crusades game.

I award XP for;

• 20% of the value of treasure.
• 20% of the GP value of magic items.
• Defeating (killing, negotiating, circumventing, etc.) antagonists.
• Roleplaying (interacting, approaching things from the "role's" perspective).
• Mission Bonus when I believe they have accomplished something significant.
• Bravery (are they being adventurous or stuck in analysis paralysis).

This is pooled together and divided by number of players and hirelings/NPC.

I also award other things like land, titles, contacts, etc.

Stars Without Number had the neat idea of hidden* experience. Using part of the XP budget for stuff the PCs do that isn't "critical path". I really liked that idea.

*I am probably butchering the idea using that word. I imagine an encounter behind a secret door, and so I refer to it as hidden.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930373[

So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

1. Running a fantasy RPG game, mechanically used to be an amalgam of AD&D and TFT, now mechanically more an unholy amalgam of Chainmail, OD&D, TFT & Atomic Highway. It plays very much like early addition D&D in that I have converted several D&D modules to my homebrew system, Caverns of Thracia, Dark Tower, B2 Keep on the Borderlands, G1-G3 Against the Giants and the modules stand up and play a lot like I recall when we played them straight up with early D&D.  

2.  I give experience for exploration, heroic deeds, overcoming obstacles (such as traps, puzzles, sticky negotiations, etc.) and overcoming monsters (by any means including persuasion, trickery, driving off or out-right killing).  It is all pooled together then divided by number of characters (including NPCs) and awarded equally.  Just because I am too lazy to track it individually.  If a character does something mostly them that is great, they get an xp bonus.  I awarded at the start of each session, or at the end if we have extra time.  

My experience (no pun intended) over the years is players will focus on the things xp are awarded for and enjoy the game if you are giving xp for what they want to do.   In a sense, what you hand out xp for says to people what your game is about even if you don't intend to send that message.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930523Did you specifically do it to slow down the "Level Train Has No Brakes" speed of 5e or just sick of doing exp?

um... Have you actually played 5e? I ask because statements like the above cast some small doubt there since 5e uses generally the same curve as AD&D. In fact the early advancement is a little slower than in AD&D. Heres a quick graph with the AD&D totals reduced by 10 for comparison so AD&D 100k EXP becomes 10k. (math may be a little off but should map better than my first try where got the numbers off badly.

(https://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic3258419_md.png)

The big difference is that 5e, while lacking AD&D's gold turned in for EXP factor, tends to give more EXP for monsters than the AD&D equivalent. Though Im not sure its all that fast. Probably very YMMV depending on what all is going down.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;930780Stars Without Number had the neat idea of hidden* experience. Using part of the XP budget for stuff the PCs do that isn't "critical path". I really liked that idea.

*I am probably butchering the idea using that word. I imagine an encounter behind a secret door, and so I refer to it as hidden.

I have no idea what you mean. Can you provide a couple of examples?

Quote from: Bren;930817I have no idea what you mean. Can you provide a couple of examples?

One off the top of my head.

Let's say the players are engaged in a rescue operation at a remote outpost. During the infiltration, they find out there's a restricted weapons research area. They can complete their mission as planned, or they could make a detour and risk the heightened security and time spent to check out the goodies in the weapons vault. It's like an optional side quest that will give them more potential xp and loot, allows the party to take on more risk if they want to.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;930820One off the top of my head.

Let's say the players are engaged in a rescue operation at a remote outpost. During the infiltration, they find out there's a restricted weapons research area. They can complete their mission as planned, or they could make a detour and risk the heightened security and time spent to check out the goodies in the weapons vault. It's like an optional side quest that will give them more potential xp and loot, allows the party to take on more risk if they want to.

Thanks for explaining. I think I get that, though the idea of an experience budget seems odd. So the GM has some sort of experience budget? How is the budget determined?

I run the CoC/BRP games as well, and I don't have trouble with the check being a magnet for cheaters, either--I call for that at the start of a session, and kind of watch folks as they roll, but we have gamed for a long long time together and never have had that problem.  The only variation is that I will sometimes allow people a second check in a box for either extraordinary role play or for a very good roll.  (Usually one can only get one at a time.)

Quote from: Bren;930821Thanks for explaining. I think I get that, though the idea of an experience budget seems odd. So the GM has some sort of experience budget? How is the budget determined?

SWN has a reccomended xp value per session table. Divide that amount for cash value of loot. The section is vague, maybe intentionally, as to what xp is awarded for besides loot.

D&D has had xp budgets since 3rd edition, I think? I know Pathfinder and 4th edition have xp budgets that the GM "spends" building encounters, adding traps, including loot, etc.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;930823SWN has a reccomended xp value per session table. Divide that amount for cash value of loot. The section is vague, maybe intentionally, as to what xp is awarded for besides loot.

D&D has had xp budgets since 3rd edition, I think? I know Pathfinder and 4th edition have xp budgets that the GM "spends" building encounters, adding traps, including loot, etc.

How curious. The budget concept seems a bit bizarre. It also seems like way more work than tracking fatigue in Runequest 3. What is it intended to accomplish?

Quote from: Bren;930850How curious. The budget concept seems a bit bizarre. It also seems like way more work than tracking fatigue in Runequest 3. What is it intended to accomplish?

It's a tool for DMs to balance the challenge of an encounter.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering#Table-Encounter-Design

Personally, I've developed my own technique that's similar, but I prefer to eyeball challenges and xp values, and not build them out of a strict system. Probably because I've DMed for so long that I've got a pretty good idea of how challenging most encounters in a d20 type system are. I can see it being pretty helpful for a new or intermediate GM.

D&D 3.x/Pathfinder doesn't really use a strict system either.  It's more more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.  Some PFS scenario writers forget this.  That's how you get a tier 7-11 PFS scenario with an encounter where the PCs fight a swarm of CR2 morlocks.  In tier 10-11, there are 32 of the damn things.  Technically, it's a level appropriate encounter.  In reality, it's a tedious waste of time.

Quote from: jhkim;930502I'm running 5th ed D&D, but I'm just using level advancement as GM fiat, which amounts to a level advance every 4-5 sessions now.

(I've played with XP plenty, but I felt that XP calculation and tracking weren't adding anything to the game.)

I do the same in my 5e game, albeit with speedier advancement since we play irregularly but for a full day. That's faster than RAW, but I'm fine with it, especially as it allows my new-to-the-game players to get to play with their new toys on a regular basis.

Old school XP payout systems simply add bureaucracy and whining for no tangible benefit. (That said, I played in a deep ACKS game in which the old-school XP fit just fine in the rest of the mega spreadsheet craziness).

Quote from: Motorskills;930867Old school XP payout systems simply add bureaucracy and whining for no tangible benefit.

Try playing with grownups.

How do I hand out experience?

I say, "You get X experience points."

I give everyone an equal share of EXP at the end of the session.

I also award individual bonus EXP at the beginning of the session by hosting a Jeopardy!-style Q&A about the previous session about important NPCs, overarching story updates and factoids that are related to the adventure at-hand.

Finally, I award individual bonus EXP if players take the time to write an update from their character's point of view from the previous session on our shared wiki. The more players who participate in this weekly compounds the bonus EXP. So if the reward was 50 EXP per update between sessions individually, it would multiply to 150 EXP if three players made an update. To incentivize this, I only offer this bonus EXP if the update is made between sessions, before the new session.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;930932Try playing with grownups.

Ive DMed for kids that were far far more reasonable and open minded than some of the supposed grownups Ive had at the table.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;930940I give everyone an equal share of EXP at the end of the session.

I also award individual bonus EXP at the beginning of the session by hosting a Jeopardy!-style Q&A about the previous session about important NPCs, overarching story updates and factoids that are related to the adventure at-hand.

Finally, I award individual bonus EXP if players take the time to write an update from their character's point of view from the previous session on our shared wiki. The more players who participate in this weekly compounds the bonus EXP. So if the reward was 50 EXP per update between sessions individually, it would multiply to 150 EXP if three players made an update. To incentivize this, I only offer this bonus EXP if the update is made between sessions, before the new session.

What's the purpose of having them update the wiki? Does having a wiki make a difference?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;930991What's the purpose of having them update the wiki? Does having a wiki make a difference?

It allows us to gaze upon previous games, remember old characters, read old stories and have a repository of information we can share with our friends and children when they begin playing. My players are incredibly diligent about logging between sessions. The key is to have everyone hyperlink, just like in wikipedia.

We started using freeware wiki software (Peanut Butter Wiki) in 2004 as beta testers. It currently has 1,904 pages of hyperlinked information, with 1.5gigs of total information. I recently finished transcribing all my old notes onto the wiki from when I started my campaign world over the past 25 years.

Quote from: trechriron;930768I am running a Castles & Crusades game.

I award XP for;

• 20% of the value of treasure.
• 20% of the GP value of magic items.
• Defeating (killing, negotiating, circumventing, etc.) antagonists.
• Roleplaying (interacting, approaching things from the "role's" perspective).
• Mission Bonus when I believe they have accomplished something significant.
• Bravery (are they being adventurous or stuck in analysis paralysis).

This is pooled together and divided by number of players and hirelings/NPC.

I also award other things like land, titles, contacts, etc.

This makes some good sense to me.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930373So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

Right now I am just running my own game, Ogre Gate.

I give individual XP based on wha the characters did. Each character can generally earn 1-3 XP (in rare cases up to 5 if they get bonus XP for rare achievements). Each point is based on certain markers (like killing someone more powerful than them that session). If they hit each marker, they get the XP for it. In one group I've been doing individual XP, in another, just to keep things simple, we've been doing it as a group total.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930373Here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35549-Is-XP-advancement-in-character) we have a post about how players roleplay character's experience and how that is reflected in setting.

Here (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?35542-Incentivizing-Roleplaying-Behavior-A-Bad-Idea-(Mark-Brantingham)) we have an article suggesting a way to remove metagame considerations in handing out experience.

So, a question...
1. What games are you currently running?
2. How do you handle the experience in that game?

1) Running GuildSchool, as always.  The groups, one live, 2 online.
2) One of the more interesting mechanics in the game is that each skill has an experience modifier.  We literally keep track of level on every skill, and how good a person is at a skill as well as how rare that skill is determines the EXPMOD.  Rarer skills take longer to go up levels, but there is a bonus based on attributes and the guild/School learned from.

Every use of a skill gains experience in that skill, There is even a small amount gained for legit use that fails.  

We also give experience for creatures defeated/overcome/avoided, and a Roleplay bonus that can be placed anywhere at the end of every session.

It is a very slow gain system, very granular, in that my main live game is about to hit session 180, and while the PCs are dangerous and very powerful, no one has more that 45 HP and no one can cast more than mid level spells without item help.

Quote from: Omega;930816um... Have you actually played 5e? I ask because statements like the above cast some small doubt there since 5e uses generally the same curve as AD&D. In fact the early advancement is a little slower than in AD&D.

I'm a bit confused here. You're saying 5E requires only one-tenth the amount of XP compared to 1E and has substantially increased the XP for slaying monsters, and yet arguing that speed of leveling in 5E is over-stated?

Quote from: Lunamancer;931732I'm a bit confused here.

 You're saying 5E requires only one-tenth the amount of XP compared to 1E

 and has substantially increased the XP for slaying monsters,

 and yet arguing that speed of leveling in 5E is over-stated?

1: That happens now and then. Yes.

2: Right, one-tenth less in 5e.

3: Yes and No. EXP for monsters in 5e is all over the place Some quick examples
Anhkheg: AD&D = 390+13-36avg, 5e = 450
Basilisk: AD&D = 1000+250avg, 5e = 700
Beholder: AD&D 12900+1200avg, 5e = 10000
Elementals: AD&D = 2850+850avg, 5e = 1800
Goblin: AD&D = 10+3avg, 5e = 50
Kobold: AD&D = 5+4avg, 5e = 25
Orc: AD&D (equivalent) = 10+4avg, 5e = 100

Early stage monsters in 5e tend to give alot more EXP. But have more HP as well, A 5e Orc is equivalent to an AD&D orc Guard worth 42 EXP.

4: You forgot that AD&D gives EXP for gold and items and that can significantly accelerate AD&D's EXP gain.
Clearing out a lair of 100 orcs might net you around 1400 EXP. But the loot will net about 100gp in individual loot and 1000-5000+ from the lair. Possibly substantially more if you score some magic items. Whereas in 5e you get a flat 10000 EXP for orcs twice as tough as their AD&D counterpart. Its random in AD&D though so very YMMV in payoff. (Modules though tend to be more generous.)

Hence why I think that the advancement rate may be overall about the same between AD&D and 5e due to that gold for EXP factor. Though I still think the early 5e levels are probably faster.

Quote from: Lunamancer;931732I'm a bit confused here. You're saying 5E requires only one-tenth the amount of XP compared to 1E ...

Quote from: Omega;931772...2: Right, one-tenth less in 5e. ...

"One-tenth the amount of XP" would be 10 in 5e rather than 100 in 1e.
"One-tenth less" would be 90 in 5e rather than 100 in 1e.

Quote from: Skarg;931882"One-tenth the amount of XP" would be 10 in 5e rather than 100 in 1e.
"One-tenth less" would be 90 in 5e rather than 100 in 1e.

One-Tenth the amount.

Dark Albion: XP for sessions completed, plus a bonus XP for the 'best roleplayer' of the session.
Aces & Eights: xp for completely goals of active profession path, for completing personal goals, for sessions completed, and for best roleplayer.
DCC: as per DCC rules, for encounters; plus for best roleplayer.

Quote from: CRKrueger;930523For both of you, what are some examples of an appropriate juncture. I imagine places where there is a decent break in pace to allow for training, etc., and/or after major goals being completed in the setting?

The end of the journey that the game started with, lasting several weeks of in-game time and featuring a big skirmish that bordered on a proper pitched battle, was an appropriate juncture. At least for the henchfolk to level up, the PCs haven't had one yet (they started at 5th level).

In 5e, characters get to level 3 really fast but it slows down past that.  I think it's because classes don't get their signature thing until level 2 or 3.

Quote from: yosemitemike;932757In 5e, characters get to level 3 really fast but it slows down past that.  I think it's because classes don't get their signature thing until level 2 or 3.

Level 5 is when the levelling starts to slow down. Then again at level 9, 14 and kinda again at 17.
In AD&D the Thief really warped ahead in levels and most of the classes advance fairly well till around level 6 to 8 and then start to slow down.

Quote from: Omega;932878In AD&D the Thief really warped ahead in levels and most of the classes advance fairly well till around level 6 to 8 and then start to slow down.

Part of that was xp for gold and the habit of many thief players to skim a little extra off the top for themselves.

My answer is probably boring.

I'm currently only running TSR D&D (or variants), and I use the standard method: XP for treasure and for defeating monsters. About 75%-80% of the XP comes from treasure, with the balance coming from defeating monsters. I also give out small instant awards (e.g., 15-25 xp) for good ideas, skillful play, et cetera. Since my D&D games use "fortune and glory" as the general PC motivation, the default method works fine (and could be considered a sort of abstract "story award" where the story is "adventurers seek fortune and glory").

Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

The best explanation I've encountered was the one in Nightmares Underneath, and it's that you don't get XP "for" gold:).  Gold is just the measure of the skill you've demonstrated, and the mechanics reflect this, when you reach the golden marker.
Or at least, it's the one that makes the most sense to me;).

Quote from: AsenRG;933107The best explanation I've encountered was the one in Nightmares Underneath, and it's that you don't get XP "for" gold:).  Gold is just the measure of the skill you've demonstrated, and the mechanics reflect this, when you reach the golden marker.
Or at least, it's the one that makes the most sense to me;).

PLus, it is a seaerate check for the GM for giving out too much for either.

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

If the basic/broad goal is fortune and glory, then XP for gold can be thought of as an abstract way to measure success. A success-based "story award."

Thirty years of AD&D 1e and we never gave XP for gold. The main DM decided that treasure was it's own reward and I was inclined to agree with him. Mind you, he also used a kind of Milestone system for advancement. Like if I had a character who was enrolled in the Magic User College and they would have tests and stuff and if you passed, you would level up. He had a method for advancing inactive characters as well. In our games we had a big campaign with rotating DMs. Adventures were off the cuff but somewhere in the Empire. Many of them were missions for the Crown. So you could have a low level character deployed to a garrison out in the middle of nowhere and when you play that character again in six months, they may have gone up a level or two. He had tables he made for rolling to see how well you did during training and the like. Same with the Magic User College and some of the religious temples.

When I ran 2e, 3.5e and d20 Star Wars RCR experience was based on encounters. I gave out nothing for treasure. Don't worry, those guys weren't hurting for XP. They were hurting for other reasons. :D

I also played quite a bit of BECMI/RC D&D and I think we did award XP for gold. I still have a particularly successful Ochalean Thief and that XP boost was great especially when you are playing in smaller groups or solo. I have DMed games for this and though I am personally against XP for gold I did it in the way the main DM wanted. It was his game and I wasn't going to argue my PCs out of extra XP. I only DMed because it was the only way the main DM could play. :D He'd even set up the scenarios for me to run, which were often big battles.

I think it really depends on how fast you want to advance your characters. I like Milestones, but I don't think I would use them exclusively because I feel like that would be cheating characters. They should at the very least get XP for the stuff they fight and kill. However, I award XP for other things. Like if you don't kill an enemy but you do defeat it. And if that defeat is a rout, a surrender or a ceasefire will affect what the reward is. You might get 1/4 to 1/2 XP if the baddy runs away, and if they surrender you might get 1/2 to full XP, unless it's like you walk in a room and they just throw their hands up in the air, in which case maybe they'll get some XP for the comedy. Maybe not.

We've always used milestones, they just weren't defined as such. It was like if a major event happened for your character. The completion of a story arc, finding some precious family heirloom, setting up a stronghold. Whatever we thought was an important defining moment for the character, particularly during games that were RP heavy and combat light. A character who ends a war using diplomacy instead of force of arms should get some XP even if they didn't grind it out on the battlefield because that is an important and defining event for the game world.

That said I will also arbitrarily award levels to characters if I feel the situation warrants it. Ryan comes over to play. He brings his character he hasn't used in two years. We like Ryan and the group's characters are higher level now. So I boost his character. It depends on the disparity. I never raise a character level past the lowest level character in the group and sometimes I go one level below that. I do account for how much XP that character already had. So if it was a few hundred XP above third level, and I raise the character to level 6, the XP will be adjusted to a few hundred XP above level six. But this is only in circumstances where the level boost makes sense plot wise. The player and character may not be around but in a living world they are still theoretically doing something.

So blah blah in summary.

XP for killing stuff is good.
XP for not killing stuff but defeating it is also good, to a lesser extent.
XP for gold is sometimes good, but I prefer not to use it.
Milestones are good, but I'll use them to supplement XP and not replace it.

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

In AD&D you got EXP for gold and items turned in. (Or just items?) The rationale for items was that keeping the item and using it was its own reward. So perhaps that applies to gold too? I'll dig out the DMG and see what it says. Though I'll guess beforehand that its going to be left pretty ambiguous.

Will check 2e and BX too but pretty sure BX doesnt say.

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

In AD&D you got EXP for gold and items turned in. (Or just items?) The rationale for items was that keeping the item and using it was its own reward. So perhaps that applies to gold too? I'll dig out the DMG and see what it says. Though I'll guess beforehand that its going to be left pretty ambiguous.

Will check 2e and BX too but pretty sure BX doesnt say.

XP for loot conjures many humorous questions to mind.

If someone robs you, do you lose XP equal to the gold? If not, can two thief PCs rob each other back and forth to keep gaining XP from the same loot?

If a GM runs multiple PC groups, can they steal from & loot each other for XP?

Do you lose XP if you get gypped buying something?

Do you gain XP for buying something on sale?

If you give your daughter a large dowry and she gets married, does she gain XP for it?

Do moneylenders gain XP for the interest they collect?

When a village is pillaged, does the king lose XP equal to the gold value of the lost income?

Rifts. RAW at the end of the session when I send out the wrap up e-mail.

XP comes from treasure: 1 gp = 1XP. This gold is then donated to a temple, used to buy laboratory equipment, expanding a library, paying off city officials, as fees for training, or pissing it away at the tavern. Something Class-related that explains their new competency.

XP is also awarded for completing any adventure milestones or quests the PCs decided to undertake. I don't typically bother handing out XP for defeating monsters.

Quote from: Omega;933164In AD&D you got EXP for gold and items turned in. (Or just items?) The rationale for items was that keeping the item and using it was its own reward. So perhaps that applies to gold too? I'll dig out the DMG and see what it says. Though I'll guess beforehand that its going to be left pretty ambiguous.

Will check 2e and BX too but pretty sure BX doesnt say.

Thanks for looking.

Quote from: Skarg;933185XP for loot conjures many humorous questions to mind.

If someone robs you, do you lose XP equal to the gold?

If not, can two thief PCs rob each other back and forth to keep gaining XP from the same loot?

If a GM runs multiple PC groups, can they steal from & loot each other for XP?

Do you lose XP if you get gypped buying something?

Do you gain XP for buying something on sale?

If you give your daughter a large dowry and she gets married, does she gain XP for it?

Do moneylenders gain XP for the interest they collect?

When a village is pillaged, does the king lose XP equal to the gold value of the lost income?

1: Only if you didnt actually read the rules...

2: No. Same as you dont lose EXP for running away from a fight. You dont lose EXP for being robbed, spending money, etc.

3: No. AD&D states there has to be an actual challenge to gain the EXP. And an easy gain can vastly diminish the value of the GP to XP ratio.

4: If they fight eachother. Use of common sense is advised.

5-6-7-8: No.

9: No. (Though Birthright may have some rules for EXP from managing a kingdom?)

Quote from: Ashakyre;933106Sorry to side track, but can someone explain to me the rationale behind awarding experience points for gold? Isn't gold already it's own reward?

Ok. Pulled out the AD&D DMG and it says there that EXP for gold is basically a mechanic to abstract what would otherwise be covered in day to day training and upkeep. EXP for gol was gained only if the PCs can transport it out of the dungeon and keep it. While not stated. Its apparent that this hoarded gold is then likely spent on the level up fee. So coin eventually converts into training.

In BX no explanation is given. There is though no EXP gained for magic items and no level up fee or even training time.

2e makes EXP for gold and training fees and training itself all optional. It does though note that PC advancement is intentionally flexible as to how fast or slow the rate is. Pretty much same with 3e.

So it more or less plays through with my theory that the gold EXP then converts into training and from 2e onwards training was removed and so was the exp for gold and treasure.

Quote from: Omega;933231Ok. Pulled out the AD&D DMG and it says there that EXP for gold is basically a mechanic to abstract what would otherwise be covered in day to day training and upkeep. EXP for gol was gained only if the PCs can transport it out of the dungeon and keep it. While not stated. Its apparent that this hoarded gold is then likely spent on the level up fee. So coin eventually converts into training.

In BX no explanation is given. There is though no EXP gained for magic items and no level up fee or even training time.

2e makes EXP for gold and training fees and training itself all optional. It does though note that PC advancement is intentionally flexible as to how fast or slow the rate is. Pretty much same with 3e.

So it more or less plays through with my theory that the gold EXP then converts into training and from 2e onwards training was removed and so was the exp for gold and treasure.

If gold is spent on training, do you have to spend it to level up?

Quote from: Ashakyre;933330If gold is spent on training, do you have to spend it to level up?

Thats what meant. To level up you spend something like 1500 x level per week (1-4 depending on how the player played the character) spent to reach the next level. No training. No level up. After name level though you did not have to go find a teacher. But still had to fork over the cash.

So to hit level 5 youd need 7500 gp per week of training. If you somehow got a rating of 2 from slightly off play for example then thats 2 weeks of training and 15000 gp.

Sounds to me then like XP for gold was meant to be a fun approximation for people who didn't mind using that. Like so many other minimal/stub/odd/quick/easy/simple/not-very-logical game mechanics I remember from the White Box.

Currently, Gods of the Fall. Players get experience for GM Intrusions and discoveries. Since they're playing gods, I can be pretty liberal with XP and no worry about things getting crazy. Because they already are. They're also amazing players who use their XP to enhance the game, which is another reason I'm fine with dropping 15+ (which is a lot) XP at times.

Quote from: Skarg;933346Sounds to me then like XP for gold was meant to be a fun approximation for people who didn't mind using that. Like so many other minimal/stub/odd/quick/easy/simple/not-very-logical game mechanics I remember from the White Box.

It also was a way to make sure that wandering monsters were a hazard and a pain in the ass instead of easy XP on the hoof, and to give players a boost towards building their stronghold.

In the early days of the Dark Albion campaign, my players and I both quickly realized the fatal flaws of the "xp for gold" or even "Xp for killing" mechanics of D&D in a setting like Albion, where lust for gold was completely counter to what maybe half of the PCs ought to be doing.

At the same time, I quickly discarded other possible ideas, because any of them could ultimately be gameable, making players try to play counter to what their character would actually do, just to get more XP.  In the end, I went back to an old practice I had, and started awarding XP purely on the basis of 'adventure completed', plus a small bonus for whoever did the best job of roleplaying that session. My players don't seem to mind that at all.