Quote from: Kyle Aaron;914352It's just another conspiracy theory, like Pundit's Swine one, where a bunch of geeks on forums get to pretend their opinions matter to big companies.

Yeah, I'd like to think that (for example) fans of OD&D and AD&D 1e drove WotC to scrap 4e and start anew with a "lighter, simpler" system in 5e but the reality is the loudest complainers probably rated not even a quiet whisper on WotC's sensors.  I very seriously doubt they looked at Dragonsfoot, KnKA and so on and said "Oh my God we have to re-create a more palatable game or else these greying, gone-to-seed 40+ year old dudes will really shitpost!"

I feel a need to chime in and say "hell yeah!", good on WotC for coming out with a D&D line that a whole bunch of people are willing to pay money for and play.  D&D doesn't have to succeed for the hobby to remain vibrant, but someone has to be succeeding and getting new players to the table.  I don't want to see tabletop role-playing go the way of model trains.  An uncle of mine is big on those; he's in his sixties and he's the kid of his bunch, watching the hobby pass away.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;914474Yeah, I'd like to think that (for example) fans of OD&D and AD&D 1e drove WotC to scrap 4e and start anew with a "lighter, simpler" system in 5e but the reality is the loudest complainers probably rated not even a quiet whisper on WotC's sensors.  I very seriously doubt they looked at Dragonsfoot, KnKA and so on and said "Oh my God we have to re-create a more palatable game or else these greying, gone-to-seed 40+ year old dudes will really shitpost!"

It was more like...
Hasbro: Kill the OGL, people other than us are making money.
WotC: Uh, we can't.
Hasbro: Change D&D so the OGL no longer works.
WotC: Umm, ok, but older players might stay with the older versions.
Hasbro: Then forget all the older players and get the young MMO crowd to play.
WotC: Umm, ok. - Ding! 4th Edition
Hasbro: (Noticing a distinct lack of green rain falling from the sky...)Fix 4e.
WotC: Umm, ok, can we have money to finish the VTT thing?
Hasbro: No
WotC: Umm, ok. - Ding! Essentials
Hasbro: (Noticing a distinct lack of green rain falling from the sky...)Flush 4e.
WotC: Umm, ok.  Could you let us actually try to make an attempt not to fuck it up this time?
Hasbro: Umm, ok.

I don't see the fascination with sales compared to the past. What matters is the now, and D&D5e is doing fine.

Quote from: Skull;914778I don't see the fascination with sales compared to the past. What matters is the now, and D&D5e is doing fine.

Some people like to use it in the "my game is better than your game" arguments. Simmilar to how some use volume of game printed as a "my game is better than your game" argument.

Quote from: Skull;914778I don't see the fascination with sales compared to the past. What matters is the now, and D&D5e is doing fine.

Historical sales can give some indication of popularity of editions but it's obviously not the be all, end all and there are a lot of other factors that should be considered. Some folks use it to justify their opinions on one edition being better than another or one game being better than another.

Quote from: Harlock;914816Historical sales can give some indication of popularity of editions but it's obviously not the be all, end all and there are a lot of other factors that should be considered. Some folks use it to justify their opinions on one edition being better than another or one game being better than another.

The bold part is the ONLY reason it's considered relevant.  Personally, I'm just glad D&D is still around and trying new things.

In related historical news, the final domestic box office sales for the movie Avatar was nearly ten times those of Aliens.  Which one have you rewatched more?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT0epw9P7-o

Quote from: Ghost;914834In related historical news, the final domestic box office sales for the movie Avatar were nearly ten times those of Aliens.  Which one have you rewatched more?

Thats like comparing Grand Theft Auto to Death Race 2000. Vaugly simmilar themes of cars and a race/chase. But very different movies.

Which in a way is much like comparing the sales of 5e to 3e. Look the same on the surface. But play differently. Not so differently as Aliens and Avatar.

How much foreign presence does 5e have? Last check WOTC denied the longstanding D&D translators in Japan to work on 5e. Does 5e have any foreign version? What about 3 or 4?

Quote from: Omega;914835Thats like comparing Grand Theft Auto to Death Race 2000. Vaugly simmilar themes of cars and a race/chase. But very different movies.

It's like a lot of things. One of the things it's like is comparing two sci-fi movies about aliens made by the same director. One of the movies is older and obviously better and the newer movie made ten times the cash.

Ironically enough for the "moral absolutism and complexity" debate concerning orc children, the much more interesting of these two movies deals with human interactions with a race that cannot be dealt with socially, only militarily. The other movie has members of one race actually becoming members of the other. That didn't make it better, though. It still sucked, but yet outsold its superior predecessor ten to one.

Quote from: Omega;914835How much foreign presence does 5e have? Last check WOTC denied the longstanding D&D translators in Japan to work on 5e. Does 5e have any foreign version? What about 3 or 4?

D&D3 and D&D4 were translated into several languages. There is no foreign version of D&D5, and apparently this is not due to a lack of interest of foreign companies in translating D&D5, but to a deliberate decision of WotC. Why? WotC has given no explanation.

Quote from: Claudius;914983D&D3 and D&D4 were translated into several languages. There is no foreign version of D&D5, and apparently this is not due to a lack of interest of foreign companies in translating D&D5, but to a deliberate decision of WotC. Why? WotC has given no explanation.

Right. WOTC denied the translators in Japan the renewal of their license. No reason was given for that. WOTC marketing once again living up to its horrible reputation.

Which I guess makes 5es success all the more amazing that its done so well despite WOTCs best efforts to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

When a product is translated, do the translators reformat everything as well? Also, do the translators do this pro bono? If not, perhaps that's why WotC has denied the translations. As has been noted before, WotC hasn't really spent as much on this edition as they have previous editions. Everything from outsourcing the adventure path (whatever they call it now), to open playtesting, to a dearth of campaign, splat, and expansion books. In fact, looking at official product, I'd say this was the cheapest edition of D&D we've seen since the mid-'70s. I'm not defending WotC per se. I don't even own a single 5th edition book. Just trying to think of a reason they may think it is justified.

Quote from: Omega;914986Right. WOTC denied the translators in Japan the renewal of their license. No reason was given for that. WOTC marketing once again living up to its horrible reputation. Which I guess makes 5es success all the more amazing that its done so well despite WOTCs best efforts to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

There could be a lot of contractual reasons why that has nothing to do with anything players care about, such as terms that automatically go into effect should Hasbro decide to do a localized version (and Hasbro doesn't like them any more). In the tech industry I run into this crap all the time.

True. But this was the translation group that had done 3rd and 4th. (Not sure who did O, BX, A and 2nd?) Though it wasnt just Japan. All translation groups were denied.

Quick search shows no reason mentioned as to why. So who knows. But as noted. This IS WOTC we are talking about. All bets are off on there having been a valid reason. They screwed things with 4e German translations according to some statements that they jacked the licensing fee high enough the regulars refused.

WOTC though did allow the translation of the Basic rules and that is up on Hobby Japan's site.

According to Mearls & co there was plans to do (in house?) translations all at once. Whatever that means. But that was like 2 years ago?

One reason I could see as valid reasoning is quality control. And if its in house WOTC gets all the profit instead of a licensing fee.