Quote from: Shipyard Locked;912958For the record Coffee Zombie, I don't think you deserve the abuse you've been getting for all this.

+1. So much one-true-way bullshit. I play and enjoy 5e but it's obviously not for the OP.

Quote from: cranebump;913187This sounds like the, "HE STARTED IT!" defense. Not that folks need an additional excuse to act like a dick, but doing so, and blaming someone else for your own douche baggery,  is...is...well, I guess you can run for President of the United States.

Well true. You are a dick sometimes. But I dont think we'd want you running for president.

Quote from: jeff37923;912990Sommerjon, show us on the doll the naughty place where the bad DM in your past touched you.

It's his bi-weekly driveby against something vaguely old school.  Nothing to see here, move along.

Quote from: Omega;913619Well true. You are a dick sometimes. But I dont think we'd want you running for president.

They should just hold a National Lottery, pull someone's name out of a goddamn hat.

One thing to remember is that NPC enemies can do all the things that PCs can do.

Quote from: yosemitemike;913625One thing to remember is that NPC enemies can do all the things that PCs can do.

PCs are like Batman: their very existence escalates evil doers. As they gain new powers, gadgets and abilities, so do the villains.

Take the Flight spell or Dimension Door, for example. I say that when the party suddenly has access to either of those, the DC level of the campaign alters a bit. Not to punish the players, but to reflect the sudden increased power level.

That means, of course, that the DM must keep notes about how characters level up, especially spellcasters.

Quote from: CRKrueger;913621It's his bi-weekly driveby against something vaguely old school.  Nothing to see here, move along.

Old school?  :rolleyes:

It's the system 98% of you popped your Lets play pretend virginal cherry on, and you imprinted hard on that shit.  Let's not forget the micromanaging you are able to do er.. sorry, the rulings not rules.

It's not osr or old school it's a bunch of has beens and never weres flailing about looking for validation.

Quote from: Sommerjon;913651Old school?  :rolleyes:

It's the system 98% of you popped your Lets play pretend virginal cherry on, and you imprinted hard on that shit.  Let's not forget the micromanaging you are able to do er.. sorry, the rulings not rules.

It's not osr or old school it's a bunch of has beens and never weres flailing about looking for validation.

Oh, I'm sure everyone WAS something, and maybe still is. Just like you, sir, are...certainly something...(and always was?).

Quote from: Omega;913619Well true. You are a dick sometimes. But I dont think we'd want you running for president.

Hmmmm...uncalled for, and, well, not even funny. But I guess it wasn't meant to be? But since I can be a dick sometimes, how about you go fuck yourself?:-) There. Now it's justified.

(My run for president post wasn't intended to be a jibe at you--sorry if it came out that way)

Quote from: Necrozius;913634Take the Flight spell or Dimension Door, for example. I say that when the party suddenly has access to either of those, the DC level of the campaign alters a bit. Not to punish the players, but to reflect the sudden increased power level.

That means, of course, that the DM must keep notes about how characters level up, especially spellcasters.

Significant NPC enemies will be at the PC's level or above it.  They will have access to dimension door, flight and so on if the PCs are high enough level to have access to them.  It's just how the game scales as character level increases.

Quote from: cranebump;913889Oh, I'm sure everyone WAS something, and maybe still is. Just like you, sir, are...certainly something...(and always was?).

I'm right.

Quote from: Coffee Zombie;912492I am DMing, and am sick to death of 5E. I don't think it's the antichrist of D&D or anything, but I have a number of serious complaints. The group is around level 8 (5 players) and almost anything I throw at them, even when I throw Deadly Encounters (by the book, at the very highest end of the xp budget or above), I can't challenge them anymore. Their magical items are moderate at best, one character still has none at all. I also find the sheer number of abilities the characters have is daunting to keep track of. I want to just take the campaign, wave the wand and have it switch to AD&D (1e) and keep moving on.

But how to convince the group?

Quote from: Ratman_tf;912516Tell your group what you typed up here. Ask them if they'd be willing to switch to AD&D. If they say No, you're fucked. Quit playing/GMing.

Yeah...that's one way...I suppose.

Or, you could wrap up your 5e campaign with some big epic event.  Give the players some fulfillment and closure.  THEN start a AD&D campaign from scratch.  You're players are invested in the characters they have been developing.  You can't really expect them to ditch all that on a whim.  If you do, you are constantly going to be second guessed and spend your energy fending off direct comparisons between the editions.  Why can't my character do this?  Lame!  Better to make a clean break and start fresh.  

That's what I would do, anyway.

Quote from: Sommerjon;913978I'm right.

if you were actually as right as you think you are, you wouldn't need to dress up your claims in needless bravado and crudity. Further, being right isn't an excuse for shitty manners.

Quote from: cranebump;914185if you were actually as right as you think you are, you wouldn't need to dress up your claims in needless bravado and crudity. Further, being right isn't an excuse for shitty manners.

I'm so sorry.

I didn't realize you needed to be talked to like a child.

there, there, it's all right there, there.

Quote from: Coffee Zombie;912492I am DMing, and am sick to death of 5E.
But how to convince the group?

Lots of posts like this lately.  I dunno, it was pretty obvious to me what 5E was going to be like when the rumblings started and even more obvious when the details started to appear. 5E is cut from the mold of corporate gaming. All your complaints about it are valid, just like the ones Brendon is voicing in his posts and others elsewhere. All of the design features that make the PCs too hard to challenge were completely predictable from the beginning. But, if you basically have a campaign you like except that you have a hard time challenging the players, I'm pretty sure throwing more of what's in the adventures already would increase the challenge.  Why not do that? Because one of the biggest problems with 5E and D&D in general as "a thing" is that people who play it concede too much authority to the system itself, the monolithic thing of WoTC, codified rules that are above campaign, setting, and GM.  The "challenge rating" concept has neutered many a modern GM, doing away with the idea that there are just doors that should not be opened, and that sticking your hand into the wrong black mouth without testing it first with a pole could be the difference between rolling for treasure and rolling up a new character. It's a mindset problem as much as anything else.  If you have to "justify" doing anything to your players then the problem isn't one I know how to solve for you. Up the number and/or level of encounters seems pretty easy, but I'll bet you don't do it because you'll get tears from the table once they calculate the challenge rating. You'll have tirades from entitled players about how unfair it is.  You'll have that yacking mouth in your ear (you know the one I mean) hour after hour until you either give up or you finally decide you don't actually care anymore and you're gonna do it your way. But this will be true even if you switch to another edition. That won't save you. That yacking whiner will still whine as long as his whining gets what he wants.  Easy gold. Safe adventures.

The edition you use is really a separate issue from the challenge problem, but it's still a factor in your enjoyment.  I don't have the problem with complaining players but I still detest 5E just like I detested 4E. I would say change editions. If you change the game to something you like better, you're going to enjoy it more and so, therefore, should your players.  You could "sell" a different edition by touting it as being way more dangerous. You might be surprised that that has appeal, at least for some players. Somebody is sure to complain, but if they like the game they're in now, it's pretty hard to imagine them not showing up for something new and different. Even if they dont want a change, curiosity is going to bring them to the table.  BTW, the tales of player deaths make great stories.  Even if some players decide to sit the new game out, they're gonna start hearing about the carnage they missed seeing. Maybe players you find to replace the whiners will be better players.  Change isn't always a bad thing.

Next time you sit down at the table just say it: "This game is too damn easy. It's boring. Nobody ever dies. Everybody roll 3d6 6 times in order."  Wear wraparound sunglasses. It helps.


Of course, if they really complain you could be a heartless bastard and roll them with Shadowrun.

"You thought you had it bad before? Duck these motherfucker."