Quote from: Opaopajr;914180Pixel bitching also works in the reverse, where it can be used in Org Play to funnel down variance in overarching adventure seasons. Since Org Play is a meta-layer that can override GM judgment, it is not uncommon for Org Play adventure writers - and subsequently traveling competitive players - to invoke the pixel bitch to shut down alternate creative play solutions, by either other players or GMs. It's a form of meta-rules lawyering to cramp the GM into CPU server mode so a player's optimization is not fettered by human variance.

Can you give some concrete examples of what you are talking about?

But of course!

PFS is notorious now for not allowing theft of unlisted treasure to remain with you after a session adventure. That means nothing, including the water you scoop out of an unowned lake into your own barrel can remain with your character. It gets confiscated by your society faction for you to purchase waterskin refills later. So that also means any other such 'found objects' beyond one-session play do not persist until purchased. Therefore any creative uses for found ingredients (herbs, powders, chemicals, fluids, etc.), tools, weapons & armor, and so on must serve that session's use. Further "more competitive players" may invoke those actions to be deemed table griefing and delay of game, which then can shut down that GM support of that player's gathering efforts.

The D&D AL compromise to this is found weapon & armor from enemies are limited to current-session only, but GM discretion is allowed elsewhere.

Further the properties of an object not delineated can have players invoke unallowed deviation so there is cross-table persistence of story arc NPCs/Locales. So, (my current FLGS drama) you can have the organization say a GM cannot define an alcohol as flammable because the adventure and PHB does not define said adventure alcohol as such. Or, in further AL drama, you can have fire catch on several objects, but not catch the location it is in on fire - because it could interfere with the persistence of a location for future adventures.

Certain creative or indirect solutions go off the table when the GM cannot use situational judgment for contextual coherence. The logic is because either a) such contextual coherence conflicts with future narrative expectations. Or the logic is because b) such absence of explicit game mechanization leads to inconsistent strategy across tables. In both cases the desire is to minimize variance for the consumption of a consistent official play product.

Quote from: Opaopajr;914195Therefore any creative uses for found ingredients (herbs, powders, chemicals, fluids, etc.), tools, weapons & armor, and so on must serve that session's use. Further "more competitive players" may invoke those actions to be deemed table griefing and delay of game, which then can shut down that GM support of that player's gathering efforts.

I can see a GM cutting something short because of the time constraints of the format but I have never encountered a situation like you describe.  The PFS guide does not use the term table griefing or at least the current one does not.  

Quote from: Opaopajr;914195The D&D AL compromise to this is found weapon & armor from enemies are limited to current-session only, but GM discretion is allowed elsewhere.

My experience running DDAL is limited but I have never seen it there either.

Quote from: Opaopajr;914195Further the properties of an object not delineated can have players invoke unallowed deviation so there is cross-table persistence of story arc NPCs/Locales. So, (my current FLGS drama) you can have the organization say a GM cannot define an alcohol as flammable because the adventure and PHB does not define said adventure alcohol as such. Or, in further AL drama, you can have fire catch on several objects, but not catch the location it is in on fire - because it could interfere with the persistence of a location for future adventures.

I have run several PFS scenarios that take place in common locations including the entire series of Blackros Museun scenarios.  None have any restriction like you describe.  There is no prohibition on altering the location in any of them.  There is nothing in any of them preventing a GM from saying that alcohol is flammable or anything of the kind either.  That's not coming from the PFS rules at all.  

Quote from: Opaopajr;914195Certain creative or indirect solutions go off the table when the GM cannot use situational judgment for contextual coherence. The logic is because either a) such contextual coherence conflicts with future narrative expectations. Or the logic is because b) such absence of explicit game mechanization leads to inconsistent strategy across tables. In both cases the desire is to minimize variance for the consumption of a consistent official play product.

Nothing in PFS prevents a GM from doing this.  Scenarios are self-contained with little to no narrative expectation beyond the scenario itself.  The second one is there but it's simply to make the experience and rewards more uniform though there is always a ton of table variation and the rules account for and allow that.

"While the goal of the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild is to provide an even, balanced experience to all players, doing so would require all PCs to be exactly the same and all GMs to be restricted to a stiflingly oppressive script.  We understand that sometimes a Game Master has to make rules adjudications on the fly, deal with unexpected player choices, or even cope with extremely unlucky (or lucky) dice on both sides of the screen.  Scenarios are meant to be run as written, with no addition or subtraction to the number of monsters (unless indicated in the scenario), or changes to armor, feats, items, skills, spells, statistics, traits, or weapons.However, if the actions of the PCs before or during an encounter invalidate the provided tactics or starting locations, the GM should consider whether changing these would provide a more enjoyable play experience.  As a Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild GM, you have the right and responsibility to make whatever judgments, within the rules, that you feel are necessary at your table to ensure everyone has a fair and fun experience. This does not mean you can contradict rules or restrictions outlined in this document, a published Pathfinder RPG source, errata document, or official FAQ on paizo.com. What it does mean is that only you can judge what is right for your table during cases not covered in these sources. Additionally, the GM may consider utilizing terrain and environmental conditions when those effects have been written into the flavor of a scenario but the mechanics that are normally associated with them by the Core Rulebook have not been added to the encounters."

It explicitly encourages allowing the use of terrain features and conditions as you describe and allows for creative solutions.

And everything you've said completely contradicts what I've seen and heard from friends who had played and ran PFS and AL in my presence. I myself stopped GMing AL because of the poor adventure design. We must then just have better munchkin rules lawyer GMs than you do, as they have received complaints from competitive Org Play players unhappy with them enjoying a party deviating with creative solutions, and then just turn around and rules crush the table utterly. Still know people that retired from pressganged convention GMing because player-side metagame pixel bitching wouldn't let them GM beyond strict rules service. They're very good at what they do, but were sick of being seen as a CPU server than a GM with judgment.

I know what I've seen and heard. Had to fine tooth comb AL rules in my time before I quit. Most players are great, but Org Play brings its own type of player-side control freak that meta-vetoes play. And yes, it can and does shut down tables.

Quote from: Opaopajr;914258We must then just have better munchkin rules lawyer GMs than you do, as they have received complaints from competitive Org Play players unhappy with them enjoying a party deviating with creative solutions, and then just turn around and rules crush the table utterly.

That's almost certainly the case but my point is that the PFS rules don't encourage or even support that behavior.  They explicitly allow for GM judgement.

Quote from: Opaopajr;914195Further the properties of an object not delineated can have players invoke unallowed deviation so there is cross-table persistence of story arc NPCs/Locales. So, (my current FLGS drama) you can have the organization say a GM cannot define an alcohol as flammable because the adventure and PHB does not define said adventure alcohol as such.

Question. How does the bitching player know what the adventure does or does not define?

That all sounds super complicated - is PFS  the most popular way to play Pathfinder (I'm assuming that's what PFS stands for).