This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

HARP and HARP Sci-Fi

Started by Apparition, March 25, 2016, 09:41:10 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Apparition

I've recently been made aware of both HARP and HARP Sci-Fi.  From Googling, it appears that HARP came out in the early 2000s and HARP Sci-Fi came out in the late 2000s.  They look interesting, but both games also appear to have been on life support for the past few years.  Is that accurate?  Why would someone play HARP over RuneQuest or D&D 5E?  Why would someone play HARP Sci-Fi over Traveller or River of Heaven?

David Johansen

The real question is why would anyone play HARP over Rolemaster.

Because the problem is that HARP isn't enough lighter than Rolemaster to hold a significant advantage over it but it's still sufficiently crunchy that BRP or D&D 5e look simpler.

The problem was that after the bankruptcy the new ICE felt the need to replace MERP as they no longer had the license.  They also wanted a new edition of Rolemaster as they no longer had the rights to many of the RMSS books and the system had been divisive and intimidating to new players.

So, they made a game that was somewhere in the middle without any of the mad brilliance that made MERP so special.  It was also a trial balloon for a new edition of Rolemaster but in the end it only further divided the fan base. Anyhow, Nicholas Caldwell is the head of ICE 3.0 and he loves HARP so much he wrote an sf version of it.

I guess the salient point would be that if you want a class and level based game with soft classes, skills with diminishing returns built into their advancement, critical hit tables, and a simpler scheme for skill costs than Rolemaster's, HARP might be for you.  It's not bad, but it doesn't really carve out a niche of its own or have a flavor or resonating theme or any of that stuff.

I'd just play RMSS myself.  It's not much harder and does a lot more.  The new edition is also worth a look, but it's more of a fluid playtest version last I looked.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

dbm

Good comments from David there.

If your aim is genuinely to have a much lighter game in a similar vein to Role Master or HARP then I suggest you check out Novus. It was written by one of the key Iron Crown authors and has the level + skills approach as it's default way of operating.

But it is much, much lighter.

You can check out the SRD for free or purchase in PDF at DriveThru.

Dave 2

In fairness to HARP, if you turned the question around and asked why play Runequest or 5e over HARP, aside from the pool of interested players, I'd say HARP is competitive enough (if you like skills/levels).

But unless you're specifically looking for a Rolemaster-lite I can't say it brings anything those don't either.  It's possible it just came out ten years too late, because it does suffer from a crowded field and none of the network benefits of 5e, Runequest or Mongoose Traveller.

I didn't know about Novus (or I'd heard the name but not the pitch).  I'll check it out.

David Johansen

Tim Duger designed HARP and Novus.  Novus is half what he wanted HARP to be in the beginning before ICE set down parameters and half what he wanted to change when he was done with HARP.

Really, that decision comes down to how badly you want open ended d% tables.
Fantasy Adventure Comic, games, and more http://www.uncouthsavage.com

trechriron

HARP's magic system seems cool at first read. Then you realize it will take 20 levels to get any ability to modify spells and it just looks like every other fantasy magic system.

The critical tables are cool. They add some fun to the mix for sure.

The classes, abilities and cultures have a nice "these work well together" feeling. And it certainly scratches the "old school" feeling. Like when you browsed the shelves for something different than D&D on the bottom shelf and it jumped out and said "play me you fool!".

It's a little off and interesting and complex in places, but if it feels good, you should try it. If after that, it doesn't appeal, try out Novus. It's also a labor of love with feel good ideas that plays faster and is more consistent.
Trentin C Bergeron (trechriron)
Bard, Creative & RPG Enthusiast

----------------------------------------------------------------------
D.O.N.G. Black-Belt (Thanks tenbones!)

Apparition

Yeah, mainly what appealed to me of what I read about HARP is the combination of levels and skills.  I'll take a look at Novus.  Thanks, y'all.