Quote from: snooggums;833436There's initiative and AC bonuses from Dex as well.

The AC system in 5e doesn't make dex a slam dunk in that department, but I'll grant you the initiative bonus is nice.

Quote from: danskmacabre;833282That's interesting, as I find it really comfortable to run and really smooth.
If anything, it seems easier to run than ever.

I am not saying it is bad in this regard. It is easier to run than most other modern forms of D&D. But that is still my preferred level of GMing difficulty.

I like it.  I've been in the playtest since day one, effectively, and although there's some design choices I wish had optional parts to it, it's D&D.

Namely the magic system, as always.  thing is, I'm of two minds with it.

First, I like Cantrips/Orisons being usable at any time, it allows the Casters to be Casters than video game Nova Bombs.  But, and this is the other hand, the Nova Bombs are still there.  And these very same Nova Bombs are what killed my enjoyment of 3.x

I'll admit to being a decent GM, I've been doing it for about 22 years now, and I've had people who've willingly come back to my table, even when they have a choice of other DMs, so I think I'm OK.  But one thing I am not good enough, and this showed up big time in 3.x was how to balance an adventure that challenges the Wizard, but not crush anyone who doesn't have any spells.

Now, admittedly, the math is much lower than the exponential power curve that 3.x and Pathfinder glory in.  But the problem is there, waiting, ready to pounce my meagre DMing skills ready to rip my nights apart as I desperately try to keep my entire table engaged.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;833394I think he's talking about the case where you can cast a spell as a bonus action (e.g. Healing Word), and then you are allowed to cast another spell with your remaining action if that additional spell is a cantrip and has a castng time of one action.

I  glanced through the classes and not even the cleric has that? The only thing close is the Eldritch Knight who can make a weapon attack as a bonus after using a cantrip, and the War Priest who can make a weapon attack after using an attack action. There are others others but they seem fairly situational.

The closest to multiple spells a round might be the Eldritch Knight again. But only if you read the extra attacks as meaning extra spells. That is debatable due to the wording. But about all I can think of that might fit.

His whole post comes across weird. Almost like he never actually even read the rules and was just cut-n-pasting someones trolling.

Back on topic.
Another thing I am still liking about 5e is that they have not (yet) started the whole expansion book routine. They havent overwhelmed with setting books, player expansions, yadda-yadda. Its been confined to the modules and the player option PDFs.

I've been playing it weekly since October of last year and like it quite a lot. The only thing we've formally houseruled is death saves: three strikes per long rest and you're out. This incentivizes combat healing a bit more, as opposed to only healing when an ally goes down, and creates a more gritty feel with a sense of risk and danger.

I haven't done it yet, but I would definitely enjoy playing and/or running a Basic Rules game. I think it's a very solid retro-clone.

Quote from: Omega;833458I  glanced through the classes and not even the cleric has that? The only thing close is the Eldritch Knight who can make a weapon attack as a bonus after using a cantrip, and the War Priest who can make a weapon attack after using an attack action. There are others others but they seem fairly situational.

The closest to multiple spells a round might be the Eldritch Knight again. But only if you read the extra attacks as meaning extra spells. That is debatable due to the wording. But about all I can think of that might fit.

I wasn't even really thinking about advanced class features. I was just thinking of the basic casting rules (basic PDF, p.78).

QuoteCasting Time

Most spells require a single action to cast, but some
spells require a bonus action, a reaction, or much more
time to cast.

Bonus Action

A spell cast with a bonus action is especially swift. You
must use a bonus action on your turn to cast the spell,
provided that you haven’t already taken a bonus action
this turn. You can’t cast another spell during the same
turn, except for a cantrip with a casting time of 1 action.

Quote from: Omega;833458His whole post comes across weird. Almost like he never actually even read the rules and was just cut-n-pasting someones trolling.

Back on topic.
Another thing I am still liking about 5e is that they have not (yet) started the whole expansion book routine. They havent overwhelmed with setting books, player expansions, yadda-yadda. Its been confined to the modules and the player option PDFs.

I would like some set piece adventures of a smaller scale, but am equally pleased that it hasn't turned into an arms race yet.

Is it just me or are the Warlock cantrips super strong?

Yeah. Smaller modules would be nice and not in the expensive hardback mode that about doubles the price.

But the current ones are essentially a module series all collected into one book. TSR even did some collections way back of chained modules. So its not a new thing really. Bug difference is that the new ones never existed as individuals and some arent so easily broken down into smaller segments. Hoard does fairly well. It just about comprises 3 linked modules. The initial raid and scouting, then the follow the gold and swamp, then finally the lodge and castle.

I think my perception of liking 5E is partially due to my attitude towards rpgs in general.
I don't sit down and calculate maximising damage per round for each class race combination.

Rpgs for me are so much more than combat damage .  The ranger  doesn't output as much damage as a Barbarian.  But it can do other stuff out of combat that counters that.

I'm sure you could make an awesome Cleric build that outguns  other classes,  but rpgs for me mean more than a high Dps .   If that's so important,  why not just play a war game or a MMO  or something?

First and foremost when choosing a a class and race and background is if I'm saying to myself  "Ooh that sounds like a lot of fun"  then that's good enough for me.

I've introduced a few people lately to dnd and rpgs in general and building the most effective combat build is really pretty low in the list of priorities.

I vaguely describe the races,  classes and backgrounds and see how it takes their interest.

When running an rpg,  it's not going from one combat to the next,  so those with decent noncombat skills are just as useful and better rounded in my campaign than combat monsters.

And really,  it's pretty hard to generate a crap character in 5e the way character gen is structured.

Natty Bodak & Doom are right, you can do some crazy things with casting. The cleric gets a nice stack of solid out the gate, and some craziness by 5th. From the start you can Healing Word bonus action heal spell at a distance (only bother using it to wake a downed ally from 0) and throw out Sacred Flame cantrip for the action.

By 5th I was a cleric of life doing: Spirit Guardians (3rd lvl spell, 1 action, 10 min concentration), run around everywhere with the party. Enemies starting their turn within 15' away, or entering it, take WIS save v. 3d8, and speed is halved. At encounter start cast Spirit Weapon as a bonus act (1 minute, it is NOT concentrate), Dodge and move in close. Next round you may Dodge (give attacks Disadv till next turn) or cast a spell; you already have Spirit Guardians on dealing damage, and Spirit Weapon on to use for your bonus action, and choose whatever for your action. Anyone flees your glue ball of Spirit Guardians, take your reaction attack, (as you keep dodging. I favor that for my conc damage spells).

I was not dealing nearly as much damage as the rest of my party, a paladin, an arcane trickster, a necromancy wizard, and cleric of thunder.

If you know what you're doing you can overwhelm GMs with fiddly bits. The learning curve for 5e GM material is still steep, though better than most of WotC. 4e did better to reference stat material on sheet, thus less looking up keywords and the like, but got into maintenance counter hell. 5e simplified a lot of the chit maintenance, but it is still a challenge to remember what every PC can do.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;833479Is it just me or are the Warlock cantrips super strong?

Not really. They more or less balance out with a fighters damage output. Unless you really focus on Eldritch Blast its possibly going to fall by the wayside after a point.

EB 1s a d10, 2 beams at level 5, 3 at 11, 4 at 17. A figher gets an extra attack at 5, 11, and 20. 4 total. So EB just tops out a little sooner. Maybe more damage depending on the fighters weapon. Maybe not. They both need to hit for each attack.

That sort of general balance is surprising.

Quote from: Opaopajr;833493From the start you can Healing Word bonus action heal spell at a distance (only bother using it to wake a downed ally from 0) and throw out Sacred Flame cantrip for the action.

Where are you getting this healing word bonus action for the cleric from? I assume I am missing it somewhere. But where? I am not seeing it in the cleric entry? None of the domains mention healing word as a bonus action at level 1?

Quote from: Opaopajr;833493Natty Bodak & Doom are right, you can do some crazy things with casting... If you know what you're doing you can overwhelm GMs with fiddly bits.

D&D in its current paradigm needs more monsters with the built-in ability to dispell and counterspell.

Quote from: Opaopajr;8334934e did better to reference stat material on sheet, thus less looking up keywords and the like, but got into maintenance counter hell. 5e simplified a lot of the chit maintenance, but it is still a challenge to remember what every PC can do.

Absolutely right about the status condition maintenance in 4e. That's ultimately what made me quit the design psychologically (though it was much improved in essentials).

"Let's see, this monster currently has -2 AC, +1 attack roll, +3 temporary hit points, is poisoned but can temporarily teleport if that would bring him closer to the avenger, but if he enters the cleric's space he will grant combat advantage to the ranger, and if the ranger attacks him and only him it will push him back 3, no, 4 spaces, which if it causes him to touch an ally will inflict 5 psychic damage on him and cause the ally to fall prone if the ally is poisoned, which it isn't... or is it? Shit, I can't remember if it was poisoned last round. I know it is dazed and might also be dominated if it is within 2 spaces of the wizard..."

Every fight felt like some of the more ridiculous moments in Final Fantasy games.

Quote from: Omega;833498Where are you getting this healing word bonus action for the cleric from? I assume I am missing it somewhere. But where? I am not seeing it in the cleric entry? None of the domains mention healing word as a bonus action at level 1?

Healing Word
1st-level evocation
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous
A creature of your choice that you can see within range regains hit points equal to 1d4 + your spellcasting ability modifier. This spell has no effect on undead
or constructs.
(Basic D&D 5e .pdf, August 2014. p. 93.)

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;833515D&D in its current paradigm needs more monsters with the built-in ability to dispell and counterspell.

I think re-introducing attacks interrupting spellcasting would help.

It would cause high initiative to be a problem, though, especially stupid-broken feats like Alert (removing an entire element of the game, surprise, is beyond stupid powerful for a feat). I would switch it to group initiative re-rolled each round and dumping DEX affecting initiative. That would reintroduce the fog of war, so casters can still cast, but should stay in cover.