SPECIAL NOTICE
Malicious code was found on the site, which has been removed, but would have been able to access files and the database, revealing email addresses, posts, and encoded passwords (which would need to be decoded). However, there is no direct evidence that any such activity occurred. REGARDLESS, BE SURE TO CHANGE YOUR PASSWORDS. And as is good practice, remember to never use the same password on more than one site. While performing housekeeping, we also decided to upgrade the forums.
This is a site for discussing roleplaying games. Have fun doing so, but there is one major rule: do not discuss political issues that aren't directly and uniquely related to the subject of the thread and about gaming. While this site is dedicated to free speech, the following will not be tolerated: devolving a thread into unrelated political discussion, sockpuppeting (using multiple and/or bogus accounts), disrupting topics without contributing to them, and posting images that could get someone fired in the workplace (an external link is OK, but clearly mark it as Not Safe For Work, or NSFW). If you receive a warning, please take it seriously and either move on to another topic or steer the discussion back to its original RPG-related theme.

5e and casting spells at melee range.

Started by danskmacabre, September 10, 2014, 06:52:50 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

jadrax

Quote from: Doom;786403From actual play, the warlock has been casting a cantrip every round.

To be fair, Warlocks are very much the Cantrip based class. Most of their non at will magic options are pretty limited.

Doom

From actual play, the Cleric casts the Guidance cantrip on every ability/skill check possible. +1d4 is pretty good!

Don't get me wrong, the game is the game...but I just find the infinite cantrips a little grating. One can certainly apologize by saying it's only for clerics and warlocks, of course.
(taken during hurricane winds)

A nice education blog.

jadrax

Quote from: Doom;786436From actual play, the Cleric casts the Guidance cantrip on every ability/skill check possible. +1d4 is pretty good!

Yeah, I am not actually sure Guidance works the way they thought it would. You are clearly supposed to want to cast in advance and then maintain it with Concentration until it is needed, rather than just recasting it before every skill check.

I definitely have my eye on it and if it starts getting spammed like that in my game I will probably increase the casting time substantially.

Marleycat

#33
Quote from: Doom;786436From actual play, the Cleric casts the Guidance cantrip on every ability/skill check possible. +1d4 is pretty good!

Don't get me wrong, the game is the game...but I just find the infinite cantrips a little grating. One can certainly apologize by saying it's only for clerics and warlocks, of course.

Meh, here is how it reads...
QuoteGuidance
Divination cantrip
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 minute
You touch one willing creature. Once before the spell
ends, the target can roll a d4 and add the number rolled
to one ability check of its choice. It can roll the die before
or after making the ability check. The spell then ends.
You touch somebody likely before making the check you stand by concentrating up to a minute or whenever the recipient decides to use the bonus within that minute and done. If circumstances allow you could try again of course. Don't see much spam potential in that honestly. I mean it's nice to get a +2ish (avg roll on a d4 is 2.5) on a skill roll is pretty neat but it sure isn't game breaking. What it does do is make a Bard or Rogue more effective at their job when the pressure is on making it unlikely that the cleric is just going to keep casting a spell that requires concentration yet really doesn't give a signifigant bonus compared to other options or the actual situation happening around the party.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Opaopajr

No, it works like how Doom describes. Clerics essentially get a "1st lvl Proficiency Bonus" for every skill check they attempt, and may loan it out. Sure it is a one-shot bonus lasting up to a minute, but you can easily cast it again soon after the last one went off. Barring bonus or extra actions, you can easily cast it on yourself every other round, and easily upon others every round (though you should wait and Help for even MOAR!, see below).

The only limit is the setting context, and how many relevant ability checks make themselves available.

Even 'worse' (relative) they can cast it on someone else a round before, then Help later to give them Adv. As long as the task can reasonably receive help (i.e. not merely threading a needle), or the check is not totally dependent on being proficient (i.e. Herbalists' Kit proficiency needed to create antitoxin or potion of healing), you can Help. +2 w/ Adv on each applicable check can be a thing, I hear.

:)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

mcbobbo

Quote from: CRKrueger;786281oh Christ here we go, wait for it...

5e isn't even fully released yet and already we hear how the game that gives us unlimited and unstoppable Pew Pew, among other things is less caster dominant than TSR editions.

How about wait for the game to be released fully so there's actually a chance you're not just lying?

My PHB arrived weeks ago.  Might check the address on your order...
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Doom

Quote from: Opaopajr;786493No, it works like how Doom describes. Clerics essentially get a "1st lvl Proficiency Bonus" for every skill check they attempt, and may loan it out. Sure it is a one-shot bonus lasting up to a minute, but you can easily cast it again soon after the last one went off. Barring bonus or extra actions, you can easily cast it on yourself every other round, and easily upon others every round (though you should wait and Help for even MOAR!, see below).

The only limit is the setting context, and how many relevant ability checks make themselves available.

Even 'worse' (relative) they can cast it on someone else a round before, then Help later to give them Adv. As long as the task can reasonably receive help (i.e. not merely threading a needle), or the check is not totally dependent on being proficient (i.e. Herbalists' Kit proficiency needed to create antitoxin or potion of healing), you can Help. +2 w/ Adv on each applicable check can be a thing, I hear.

:)

It's not game breaking, but it is frickin' annoying (an extra die roll on most out-of-combat die rolls). I totally grant it's not "cure wounds", so it can't fit as a first level spell, but it's a pretty awesomely spamtastic cantrip. Maybe as a once-a-day after-the-roll Cleric pseudo-domain power, it would work...but it's too much for every roll (heck, PF's version, that only gives a +1, is irksome).

If clerics weren't nigh mandatory for their healing (and they're not *that* mandatory in 5e, at least so far), they'd be mandatory for this cantrip.
(taken during hurricane winds)

A nice education blog.

Opaopajr

#37
I've already had my goofy spasm of rant about spamtastic Cantrips. Guidance is up there, but Prestidigitation/Thaumaturgy (and now Druidcraft!) absolutely take the cake for me. I forbid myself from taking a race/class combo that grants me access to those spells, the temptation is too great.

... and I am absolutely dying to play some sort of Gene Wilder & Sammy Davis, Jr. mashup of a Candyman (Prestidigitation Charlatan). Selling jawbreakers and pixie sticks and chocolate to all those around, for a song — and a dance if you wait! (pebbles, sawdust, & poo are cheap supplies)

... and then I want to play Jet Set Radio, roller blading around Waterdeep tagging things with Prestidigitation, faking my own grind sparks as I trick from one railing to another, skating past the guards.

It is simply too much power for me. :(
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Opaopajr

Quote from: mcbobbo;786531My PHB arrived weeks ago.  Might check the address on your order...

Pretty sure he means at least the standard core: PHB, MM, DMG. Pretty darn sure. ;)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Marleycat

Quote from: Opaopajr;786493No, it works like how Doom describes. Clerics essentially get a "1st lvl Proficiency Bonus" for every skill check they attempt, and may loan it out. Sure it is a one-shot bonus lasting up to a minute, but you can easily cast it again soon after the last one went off. Barring bonus or extra actions, you can easily cast it on yourself every other round, and easily upon others every round (though you should wait and Help for even MOAR!, see below).

The only limit is the setting context, and how many relevant ability checks make themselves available.

Even 'worse' (relative) they can cast it on someone else a round before, then Help later to give them Adv. As long as the task can reasonably receive help (i.e. not merely threading a needle), or the check is not totally dependent on being proficient (i.e. Herbalists' Kit proficiency needed to create antitoxin or potion of healing), you can Help. +2 w/ Adv on each applicable check can be a thing, I hear.

:)

Concentration is huge though. The cleric just standing there after giving the rogue "guidance" gets hit then spell gone. As I said it really depends on the environment and circumstances. In a perfect situation? Great, spam away. In a time sensitive or otherwise situation? Not relevant usually.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Skyrock

There is also the 1 minute limitation. Guidance is useless for long-term actions like performance or information gathering.

In adventure situations (i.e. dungeon crawls), due to the concentration it has to compete with all other long term buff spells like Blessing or Mage Armor that give more mileage in actually critical situations.

I expect as soon as long term buffs come online Guidance will remain nice for the right skill use in the right situation, but nothing worth to sacrifice already running major buffs for.
My graphical guestbook

When I write "TDE", I mean "The Dark Eye". Wanna know more? Way more?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Opaopajr;786579Pretty sure he means at least the standard core: PHB, MM, DMG. Pretty darn sure. ;)

Yeah, except none of the three are core.
LION & DRAGON: Medieval-Authentic OSR Roleplaying is available now! You only THINK you\'ve played \'medieval fantasy\' until you play L&D.


My Blog:  http://therpgpundit.blogspot.com/
The most famous uruguayan gaming blog on the planet!

NEW!
Check out my short OSR supplements series; The RPGPundit Presents!


Dark Albion: The Rose War! The OSR fantasy setting of the history that inspired Shakespeare and Martin alike.
Also available in Variant Cover form!
Also, now with the CULTS OF CHAOS cult-generation sourcebook

ARROWS OF INDRA
Arrows of Indra: The Old-School Epic Indian RPG!
NOW AVAILABLE: AoI in print form

LORDS OF OLYMPUS
The new Diceless RPG of multiversal power, adventure and intrigue, now available.

Omega

Quote from: RPGPundit;787755Yeah, except none of the three are core.

In which case No. The full Basic rules arent out yet. Theres enough to play, but parts are missing yet.

Soon enough though that will change (late October/early November) aaagh! the waiting!

Opaopajr

Quote from: Omega;787765In which case No. The full Basic rules arent out yet. Theres enough to play, but parts are missing yet.

Soon enough though that will change (late October/early November) aaagh! the waiting!

There definitely are "parts missing" in Basic, as I have found in my PbP here. i.e. You can jog, even Dash, but good luck sprinting RAW.
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

jadrax

Quote from: Opaopajr;787774There definitely are "parts missing" in Basic, as I have found in my PbP here. i.e. You can jog, even Dash, but good luck sprinting RAW.

Giving that Jumping more than your move is a Strength (Athletics) check [p. 177], I am assuming that Running more than your move would be the same.