Oh, I would have recommended TFT but I didn't know how good any of the clones are. If H&OW does a good job of reproducing TFT it's definitely worth a look. (TFT itself has some quirks so I'm a little leery of how someone else would fix them.)

Yeah I would give Heroes and Other Worlds a look.

TFT is my favorite all time, 'desert island' fantasy roleplaying game, so I concur with that recommendation. The commercial retroclone is fine but relatively boiled down and simplified. I would just go get the original, which can be found by anyone with a little google-fu skill.

Did you look at the systems on merp.com?

Quote from: The Butcher;781548Runequest 6e would be my first recommendation for non-D&D fantasy, and it seems to jive just fine with most of your criteria.

RQ6 is essentially a revision and/or expansion of Legend, which makes both games very similar. While Legend does indeed offer great value at $1 for the full game in PDF, RQ6 Essentials is PWYW. You can nudge the rest of your group over there and let them check it out for themselves.

I am definitely more of a RQ6 fan, but both should do the trick.

Another vote for RQ6 and I can't recommend Legend anymore since RQ Essentials is now free unless you want to pay a contribution:
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/130816/RuneQuest-Essentials

I would now skip Legend if you want a taster for the system as RQE is a better bet from the get go. It's 200 pages and has the core of the system intact. Since you already mentioned it you must have some experience of BRP or similar. RQ6 is an attempt to revise RuneQuest from the fractious state it's been in for the last 20-30 years. The Monster Island and Shores of Korantia supplements are good to look at as settings and applications of the rules.

What about Novus from Fire Hawk Games.  It's a simple 2d10 system by the author of HARP.

Quote from: David Johansen;782040What about Novus from Fire Hawk Games.  It's a simple 2d10 system by the author of HARP.

I have not played it, but it seems a pretty decent system.

Quote from: Beagle;781546Finally, after years of agitation and discontent, our ongoing MERP/roleplayer group has decided to switch systems (hooray), Unfortunately, there is no true consent about what shiny new game should replace the current mess of a game we use (basically a mesh up of MERP, Rolemaster and a large houserule bloat nobody seems to completely understand anymore). I had a few ideas (as do the others) and I am the "guy who knows many different roleplaying games", and I am not completely sure if there isn't a better option than my first gut feeling (that would be BRP or another member of the Runequest family, probably Legend, because it's cheap). So, I'm asking you for recommendations for good systems. Perhaps there is a hidden gem out there which we haven't seen yet which would be a nigh perfect fit.

The criteria so far for a new game are:

• The base is classic fantasy. With Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and so on. Strongly inspired by Tolkien, but expanded to a massive kitchen sink (think forgotten realms, but without any consistency).
• The system should be generic enough to be adjusted to the setting.
• The rule mechanics should be "sensible", meaning mostly "realistic" and strongly associated with the events in the game represented in the game; highly abstract games are not to this group's tastes.
• Task resolution should be decently quick and simple.
• the game should require little bookkeeping or nitty-gritty resource management.
• Many options for characters are good; classes, levels or other purely metagame concepts are not.
• Random character creation should at least be an option.
• Realism is more important than balance, balance is more important than cinematic spectacle, spectacle is more important than individual drama or other introspective elements.
• D&D in any form is for some reason or other unacceptable. No, the reasons aren't entirely rational.

So, if you have any recommendations for a game system that would fit those criteria, let me know.

You said it yourself, BRP or one of its variants is the best option for what you want. If you haven't decided yet which version you're going to use, I recommend that you download the following free/very cheap PDFs:

- Basic Roleplaying Quickstart (free)

- RuneQuest 6th Essentials (free)

- Legend ($1)

- Openquest 2nd Basic Edition (free)

Quote from: David Johansen;782040What about Novus from Fire Hawk Games.  It's a simple 2d10 system by the author of HARP.

It's okay, I gm it. I prefer RQ6. Something about Novus feels out of sorts.

The character creation in RQ6 is easier, that is for sure (IMHO anyway).

Does anyone has an overview about the differences between legend and RQ6? I'm decently familiar with the former (as well as the Mongoose predecessors of both games), but the concrete differences between the two systems would be a great decision aid.

Quote from: Beagle;782252Does anyone has an overview about the differences between legend and RQ6? I'm decently familiar with the former (as well as the Mongoose predecessors of both games), but the concrete differences between the two systems would be a great decision aid.

RQ Essentials is free to download. One of the biggest differences is the revision of all the magic systems - but RQE leaves most of this out. Beyond that it's clear RQ6 is complete revision. Anything produced by Mongoose is a f-up to one degree or another including Legend.

Just as a point of trivia and irony, normal humans in TSR D&D mostly have about 1/4 to 1/3 the basic hit points of average humans in RQ and other BRP (in which damage rolls start on average just a pip or two higher, and go down rapidly due to armor). Notably skilled ones -- and here the points represent skill, not meat -- get into the BRP range.

Tough as elephants? Far from it! And you'll have a damned hard time killing a Rune Lord in RQ because all else aside you have to hit him first, and he can parry or dodge indefinitely. The D&D hero gets tired, and even divine favor runs out: That's what hp expenditure represents.

Without those points, and without a saving roll, he's just as vulnerable as a normal man.

I've been a fan of the BRP framework since Chaosium's original RQ. It's very easy to mix bits from various games in the family. For that matter, I found it not too hard to borrow stuff from GURPS -- a probability is a probability, whatever dice you use to generate it.

So unless something new and weird is going on, I wouldn't lose any sleep over Legend vs. MW vs. RQ6. As Steve Perrin and Ray Turney said in the original, take what you like and ignore what you don't!

Quote from: Phillip;782287So unless something new and weird is going on, I wouldn't lose any sleep over Legend vs. MW vs. RQ6.

You could say that something new is going on - because of the initiative Design Mechanism has taken over RQ6. What have done and are doing with RQ6 seems close in spirit to the RQ2 Chaosium era of RuneQuest. You probably have to give some credit to Mongoose for having a go at reviving RQ but they did it in such a haphazard way it's painful to see and what they have done with Legend so far is not impressive. TDM seem completely committed to supporting the system. The RQ6 core rules are a re-write from the Mongoose versions and it's the first time for many years that certain areas have been thoroughly re-considered, like the magic systems. Even though the rulebook is 'all you need' they have also released small supplements which expand on that core - the firearms supplement, ships & mass battles, space knights & wizards, Monster Island gives a ton of examples of how to use sorcery in a setting and expands on the Lizard & Serpentmen as characters and antagonists.

Because of this I would not put MW and Legend in the same category as RQ6, not that there's anything wrong with them but they haven't gone through the same revision process and do not have anywhere near the level of support. Of course BRP players are used to mixing and matching rules from different settings and there's nothing to stop you doing that but RQ6 is substantial enough to not necessarily need that.

Quote from: Bilharzia;782387Because of this I would not put MW and Legend in the same category as RQ6,

Quite simply, RQ6 has been done with great love and attention to detail by talented developers. It's one of the highest quality RPG products of the last few years (barring the art which is merely passable).

MW and Legend, while both work as rulesets, seem amateur in comparison.