I see a thread discussing magic in 5e. So I guess some people know little bits of these soon-to-be-released rules eh?  As such, I would like to ask what you can tell me about the monsters in 5e. I once found a 5e stat-block (of a bugbear), but I don't know if it will actually be like that. Since I am working on a monster book for my own game (see below), I would like to know more about monsters in 5e, in the hope I could make my monster book usable with it without any conversion work.

Any info?

I don't have any information on what the final stat blocks will look like.  I'm assuming they won't be presented the same as in the playtest, as the playtest never really got into ecology, and was really just a simple stat block without an attempt at professional layout you'd see in a final 5e MM.

I imagine the stat fields though would be the same.  There might be minor changes to things like HP or attack bonuses, but the fields themselves?  Should be pretty stable.

Monsters were the least developed things in the playtest, at least they seemed that way.

Perhaps the ones that appeared in official pre-5E modules are closer to the actual final 5E form?

I don't know. I haven't seen these.

About 30 pages of Dead in Thay is devoted to monsters.

I really haven't paid much attention to 5e besides getting that, but the monsters seem largely OSR compatible, with one big exception: Armor Class.

For instance, the toughest monster in the book is the Pit Fiend, which has 19 hit dice and an armor class of 17.

In 1e, they had 13 hit dice and an AC of -3 (or 23 in ascending terms, or possibly 22 since the MM started at 9, apparently)

In 2e, they had 13 hit dice and an AC of -5 (or 25 in ascending terms)

In 3e, they had 19 (up to 54) hit dice and an AC of 40.

Or another example, of a mid level monster. The Otyugh. In 5e, they have 8 HD and 13 AC

In 1e, they had 6-8 HD and an AC of 3 (or 17 in ascending terms)

In 2e, they were the same as in 1e

In 3e they had 6 HD and an AC of 17

The other thing that might be a stumbling block is 5e does what 3e did - have hit dice, but then add a ton of hit points just for the hell of it, apparently.

Like the Otyugh is 8 hit dice, but it is 8d10 + 40. The Pit Fiend is 19d10 +95. So it looks like they add 5 hit points for every hit dice of the monster

I just hope the stat blocks are short and sweet...

The only game with stat blocks that made me cringe more than 4e was Mythus...


...and I'm pretty sure Gary was just trolling us.

Quote from: JeremyR;754313About 30 pages of Dead in Thay is devoted to monsters.

I really haven't paid much attention to 5e besides getting that, but the monsters seem largely OSR compatible, with one big exception: Armor Class.

For instance, the toughest monster in the book is the Pit Fiend, which has 19 hit dice and an armor class of 17.

In 1e, they had 13 hit dice and an AC of -3 (or 23 in ascending terms, or possibly 22 since the MM started at 9, apparently)

In 2e, they had 13 hit dice and an AC of -5 (or 25 in ascending terms)

In 3e, they had 19 (up to 54) hit dice and an AC of 40.

Or another example, of a mid level monster. The Otyugh. In 5e, they have 8 HD and 13 AC

In 1e, they had 6-8 HD and an AC of 3 (or 17 in ascending terms)

In 2e, they were the same as in 1e

In 3e they had 6 HD and an AC of 17

The other thing that might be a stumbling block is 5e does what 3e did - have hit dice, but then add a ton of hit points just for the hell of it, apparently.

Like the Otyugh is 8 hit dice, but it is 8d10 + 40. The Pit Fiend is 19d10 +95. So it looks like they add 5 hit points for every hit dice of the monster

Thanks for this info. I might have to get this PDF...

As far as hit-points go, I already add bonus hit-points for high Constitution scores. As such, +5 hp per hit-die would be a 20 Constitution (using FH&W stats). Now it's ludicrous to think all monsters would get a Constitution of 20, so I guess it's +5 hp per hit-die for monsters of Large size. Anyway, so far my monsters are still relatively on par. But then there is the AC... AC 17 instead of 23? Mmmmh... do they have something to compensate, such as reduction against weapons, or what not? Or fighters don't get a +1 bonus per level, but less (such as BAB +5 for a 10th level fighter instead of +10)? I can understand this, if zero-level men-at-arms are supposed to be able to hit high level foes, so PCs don't become unkillable...

Okay, will get this PDF.

Quote from: David Johansen;754319The only game with stat blocks that made me cringe more than 4e was Mythus...


...and I'm pretty sure Gary was just trolling us.

You probably won't like the 5e blocks then either. One of the few things that Mearls has praised about 4e is the look of the monster state blocks.

From the one Legends and Lore article I read, I would expect them to be very similar

Quote from: MonsterSlayer;754323You probably won't like the 5e blocks then either. One of the few things that Mearls has praised about 4e is the look of the monster state blocks.

IMO there's a big difference between a 3e/PF stat block and a 4e stat block. Both are huge. But a 3e/PF stat block is full of junk you won't use and references to stuff you need to look up - feats, spells, magic item powers etc. A 4e stat block has everything you need to run the monster, including special abilities. They work very differently in play. For simple monsters my preference is "AC 7 hd 1-1 hp 4 THAC0 20 dam 1d6", but if it's some complicated set-piece end boss thing then the 4e approach is much better than 3e/PF.

Dead in Thay doesn't use statblocks at all.

Dunno if that's the format they plan on using, or if it's because all the monsters are in the back of the module (as the MM isn't out yet)...

Quote from: JeremyR;754313The other thing that might be a stumbling block is 5e does what 3e did - have hit dice, but then add a ton of hit points just for the hell of it, apparently.

Like the Otyugh is 8 hit dice, but it is 8d10 + 40. The Pit Fiend is 19d10 +95. So it looks like they add 5 hit points for every hit dice of the monster

Those are the bonus Hit Points from Con.

Quote from: Turanil;754321But then there is the AC... AC 17 instead of 23? Mmmmh... do they have something to compensate, such as reduction against weapons, or what not? Or fighters don't get a +1 bonus per level, but less (such as BAB +5 for a 10th level fighter instead of +10)? I can understand this, if zero-level men-at-arms are supposed to be able to hit high level foes, so PCs don't become unkillable...

Okay, will get this PDF.

5e uses bounded accuracy, so the total bonuses you get from things is toned down from every other edition (except ability modifiers strangely).

In 5e, the highest attack bonus a fighter gets at level 20 is +6.  And magic items are mostly only +1, with +2 weapons being very rare.  The purpose is exactly like you said, so larger groups of lower level monster are still a threat to higher level PCs.

As a comparison between 10th level fighters:

AD&D: Needs a 12 on the attack matrix for AC 0 (effective +8 to hit).  Probably has a +3 weapon by this point.  Another +3 from ability (either naturally has a high STR, or has a gauntlets of ogre power by now).  So that's a total of roughly +14 to hit.

5e: +3 proficiency bonus.  +4 bonus from ability (probably has 18 STR by now).  +1 bonus from a weapon, maybe a +2 tops.  Total +9 to hit tops.

So in order to hit a creature with AC -3 (or 23), the AD&D fighter would need to roll a 9 or higher.

In order for the 5e fighter to hit an AC 17, he would need to roll an 8.

So in terms of what's actually needed to roll to hit, it isn't much different

Okay I understand, thanks. I also bought Dead in Thay PDF, in which I could look at the latest play-test rules.

In reading the rules and the monsters, I thought that the whole seemed well done. Nonetheless, it's not retro-compatible with any other edition of the game. Yet, concerning my monster book on the work, it seems it could still be usable in 5e, if I only give the monsters the reduced AC value. Well, that would make for three different stats on the AC line. One for FH&W (and other retro-OSR that make use of ascending AC), another for 1e/2e (i.e. the same AC but descending), and lastly one for 5e (basing my best guess on the monsters presented in Dead in Thay).

I still have other questions. Saves of monsters, and BAB of monsters: how are they determined? Is it enough for saving throws to just list their stats (Str, Dex, etc.)? Concerning BAB it looks like I should also propose a reduced BAB?

Quote from: Turanil;754596I still have other questions. Saves of monsters, and BAB of monsters: how are they determined? Is it enough for saving throws to just list their stats (Str, Dex, etc.)?

That has certainly how it has been for the latter stages of the playtest, and I cannot see them changing it now. You could always give something a special rule if you wanted it to be immune or better than normal against some form of effect.

QuoteConcerning BAB it looks like I should also propose a reduced BAB?

BAB for monsters in the play test seemed all over the shop, and looking at Dead in Thay I am still not really sure how its calculated (or indeed if it even is calculated). What is clear is that most creatures are in the range of +4 to +8.

Quote from: jadrax;754603BAB for monsters in the play test seemed all over the shop, and looking at Dead in Thay I am still not really sure how its calculated (or indeed if it even is calculated). What is clear is that most creatures are in the range of +4 to +8.

What do you think about this: Since all the playtest classes have the same proficiency progression (e.g. reach +3 at 7th level), give this as the base BAB for monster in relation to hit-dice as if they were levels; then add the strength bonus. I will try to see if this method fits with what Dead in Thay lists in their stat-blocks anyway.