I'll respond to you when I'm on a computer not a phone. It deserves that much justice for you to get it I guess. No worries.

Given you refuse to either admit or use OBVIOUS and EASY solutions without internet access which is ignorant, obtuse and willfully stupid given YOUR internet access is far more easy then mine and I can easily get said instructions along with my kids or friends using only MY current access points.

But yes, you're bad and remember it. At least it's better then your nonsensical arguments and whining.

Quote from: Benoist;752793My bad. I must have heard something wrong about bringing people back into the game, appealing to everyone, whatever D&D style you like, and so on. Silly me.

That's a pretty passive aggressive and snarky response to a pretty benign observation.

There are great things in this game, being marketed to you.  The Starter Set isn't one of them.  Now if you want to buy it for new players, and introduce them to the game WITH chargen, you're in a position where you can download and print it out and give it to them with the starter set.

Now if instead it's a hypothetical...then the passive aggressive snark was misplaced because it wasn't as personal as you made it out to seem.

Mistwell, it is aimed at him THAT IS HIS ISSUE. WotC is being very literal in that it's a Starter Set. For DM's.

Quote from: Mistwell;752802That's a pretty passive aggressive and snarky response to a pretty benign observation.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

Quote from: Benoist;752808Pot. Kettle. Black.

Thank you for entertaining me until football season. This is awesome!

So, Pundit, is Basic the missing link you've been hinting at?

Quote from: Benoist;752641What I said is that, if it weren't for critics like me, which doesn't mean only me, or me and two guys, but really, "critics" in general, WotC would still be on course with 4e and pretend like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Your attempts to shut people up for criticizing the starter set have the exact reverse effect as what you hope it does: it doesn't shut people up, it just annoys them and makes them want to be more vocal before turning their back and not looking back. That is exactly what the people who defended 4e accomplished before you. Some grand tent of reconciliation you are building for yourselves right here, 5e fans! People have opinions, like and dislike things, and you'll excuse me if I feel like I have a goddam right to give my opinion about what I think should or shouldn't be in a boxed set I'd offer people to introduce them to role playing games.

I'm not responsible for you or anyone else holding grudges over whatever the fuck you think I did to your cheerios at some point or other in the past. Likewise, if you think using "fuck" makes someone insane or outlandish on the internet, please turn off your computer immediately: you might end up with some brain damage staring at this screen for too long. And please, please! Don't ever go on YouTube. Your brain will explode. You have no idea.

You are a pompous ass and take yourself far, far too seriously. As others have stated its sales and revenue that WOTC pays attention to not some lone voice on the Internet.

You certainly haven't pissed in my cheerios but sometimes I take the trouble of letting a bit of air out of overfilled balloons. If you think you are winning friends or changing minds in this thread then you are sadly mistaken.

People can buy or not buy the box set, its fine. Clearly the precious chargen rules are a massive deal breaker for some, ok. I suspect its not for the under 20s it is pitched at.

Quote from: flyingcircus;752518Yeah if you need a computer to make a character count me out, if I can't print out a sheet and write one up with a pencil & pen, then its just 4e all over again.  I don't mind a computer generation helper at times but not as a requirement because the games too damn complex.

4e chargen never required a computer.  No more than 3e did.  The online chargen tools made stuff easier if you wanted to pull options from a dozen books as pull down menus instead of having books in front of you, but if you were just making a 4e character using 1 or 2 books, then there was zero reason to use a computer.

I made dozens of pregens for convention events over the years, all by having a blank word processor page and the PHBs.  If I had stylish handwriting, I would have just used paper.

Quote from: talysman;752549A couple pregens in the box and a sentence in the book saying you can really play a wide variety of characters, and there are full rules online and in the PHB is all you really need.

Perhaps.

Parents might get pissed when the kids print out the 100 page PDF because the kid says his new game is incomplete.  Ink ain't cheap.

Quote from: Rincewind1;752662If critics could achieve something, Uwe Boll'd not make films.

Uwe has my respect for calling out his critics to the boxing ring and then wailing on the fuckers. I bet even successful directors were chuckling about that one.

Mearls might want to start working out.

Quote from: Marleycat;752713What frustrates me is that nobody on this board is the target market.

Isn't that a problem when the new Starter Set for D&D isn't getting veteran gamers excited about buying it as a gift for their friends???

I know that if I was buying a 12 year old kid a RPG, it would not be this Starter Set based on the info I have seen so far.

Quote from: Marleycat;752791If there are no forums what is the internet good for?

Porn and LOLcats. As the good Lord intended.

Quote from: Spinachcat;752867Isn't that a problem when the new Starter Set for D&D isn't getting veteran gamers excited about buying it as a gift for their friends???

I know that if I was buying a 12 year old kid a RPG, it would not be this Starter Set based on the info I have seen so far.
.

it might be a problem if lots of 45 year old D&D players have large numbers of 12 year old friends. You thought the satanic panic was bad just think how that one would read in the tabloids.

so you wouldn't buy this even at $12:50 on amazon?
What about telling the kid to check ou the free D&D Basic game on line?

I agree a URL to free content isn't a great gift and there is a market for gifts that cost 19:99 or 24:99 that middle aged men can give to young boys they want to invite over to play at their house sometime. I think D&D might be missing a trick here as I don't think the Starter set or the basic game are filling that niche.

Gotta say, after all this time of Sacroscant and Mistwell being the only two folks really advocating for 5e here, it's surprising at how many gamers are coming out of the woodwork to reveal they were just itching to gift the Starter Set to their nieces, nephews, and other small children acquaintances...if only it came with chargen!

Is LoLcats where everyone gets those wonderful GrumpyCat pictures?

Quote from: Iosue;752873Gotta say, after all this time of Sacroscant and Mistwell being the only two folks really advocating for 5e here, it's surprising at how many gamers are coming out of the woodwork to reveal they were just itching to gift the Starter Set to their nieces, nephews, and other small children acquaintances...if only it came with chargen!

It may mean something.... :eek:

Quote from: Iosue;752873Gotta say, after all this time of Sacroscant and Mistwell being the only two folks really advocating for 5e here, it's surprising at how many gamers are coming out of the woodwork to reveal they were just itching to gift the Starter Set to their nieces, nephews, and other small children acquaintances...if only it came with chargen!

Quote from: Iosue;752873Gotta say, after all this time of Sacroscant and Mistwell being the only two folks really advocating for 5e here, it's surprising at how many gamers are coming out of the woodwork to reveal they were just itching to gift the Starter Set to their nieces, nephews, and other small children acquaintances...if only it came with chargen!

Are you suggesting some people here might be arguing in... Bad faith?



I agree for the sake of completion it would be great to have chargen too. But there is a large gap between perfection and disaster.

Basic D&D will be its own thing and levels 1 - 20 will be available online for free:

http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4ll/20140527

VS