For people not comfortable with using online content, everything will be in the PHB. Just like it was for AD&D, and has been for every edition of D&D released in the last 30 years.

Quote from: Haffrung;752922For people not comfortable with using online content, everything will be in the PHB. Just like it was for AD&D, and has been for every edition of D&D released in the last 30 years.

That alleviates any concerns I have in that regard.

Quote from: Haffrung;752922For people not comfortable with using online content, everything will be in the PHB. Just like it was for AD&D, and has been for every edition of D&D released in the last 30 years.

Plus it can be easily printed out for those who can't or simply don't want to get it online.  

VS

Quote from: VengerSatanis;752927Plus it can be easily printed out for those who can't or simply don't want to get it online.  

VS

I'm thinking of getting the free PDF and printing it to see for myself. I don't hate 5E but I get the feeling at one of "my" gaming groups that it's taken off, and that part of why it's taken off is my fiancée's opposition to Wizard's marketing practices as shown by 4E (note - not to 5E itself!).

I wouldn't mind it if I didn't have to work evenings and weekends. Stupid retail.

Quote from: Fiasco;752888I agree for the sake of completion it would be great to have chargen too. But there is a large gap between perfection and disaster.

Nobody's talking of a disaster. It is a disappointment, a fuck up on WotC's part, and for the life of me I still cannot understand why character generation rules are not in the starter set to begin with. I'll keep saying it.

Is it the end of the world? No. Do I want WotC to fail? No. Will I get the three core books despite Basic being free in PDF? Yes I will.

The Basic game being free in PDF is very good news for the fans, and for WotC potentially. Now if that Basic game could be packaged in print as well, after the release of the big three, that'd be cool.

So much for chargen not being online only.

It is nice that the basic game will be free but printing it out will be almost as costly to the end user as buying a printed copy due to economy of scale and whatnot.

Character generation is important to impart upon new players and it has nothing at all to do with optimization or assembling mechanical tidbits. You roll stats, select a class/race, and equip the character. No matter how many or how few moving parts the character has the important bit is that it is YOURS.

Having 20 or more things to decide upon does not in any way whatsoever make your character unique. Unless no other player has access to the same options as you when making a character, then your character (in a mechanical sense) is no more unique mechanically than a B/X fighter. If Joe builds a particular style of fighter, and Bob likes those options and builds an exact mechanical replica of Joe's character, exactly where have all those decisions brought us?  Right back to square one as far as individuality is concerned. Looking at both character sheets without names it would next to impossible to tell the two apart.

What makes a character special, especially a first character, isn't the availability of mechanical options, its that the character sprang to life from the player's imagination. What didn't exist moments before now suddenly does.

Being handed a character someone else made up has its place in some types of games, especially public play games with strict time limits. I just don't know if D&D would have been quite as exciting an experience if my first game began with " you wanna be the car, the thimble, the shoe, or the dog?"

Given that the new Basic D&D will be as feature-rich as it is supposed to be, and that moreover it is free, I'm entirely at peace with the chargen rules being a download-rather-than-included part of the Starter set.

I would like to see Basic as a retail product but a picture is forming as to why they're not doing that...

AD&D and Basic D&D were...unique.  Gary once told me flat out that the Basic/AD&D sales did not cannibalize one another, rather, that many people bought both and were happy with it, and mixed and matched.

That time has passed.

If we were in say the 1990s, a full-bore Basic ruleset might live comfortably with an "A" D&D - and, in fact, it did! - but I understand it now.

1e AD&D will always be my go-to game and my passion but I'm back behind 5e as a good "2nd" D&D.

So I'm excited again.

I was thinking about picking up the Starter Set, but it sounds like the free PDF is more like what I'd want to look over to decide about 5th.

It's still a little unclear from the announcement, but from this:

QuoteIf Basic D&D is the equivalent of the classic Rules Cyclopedia, then the three core rulebooks are analogous to Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. Want more character options? Pick up a Player’s Handbook. Looking for more critters for your campaign? The Monster Manual has you covered. Want to sculpt a unique campaign? Pick up the Dungeon Master’s Guide. Still, Basic D&D is the true heart of the game and could easily provide a lifetime of gaming.

(Italics from the original, boldface is mine.)

It looks like their Basic D&D will be playable by itself.  Has anyone heard how long it is?  Page count wise?  They say it's 15% of the Player's Handbook and I guess a little of the Monster Manual  from what I bolded above, but I hadn't seen a page count yet.

I guess the one thing this (good) news doesn't do is make me any more interested in the Starter Set.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;752943So much for chargen not being online only.

It is nice that the basic game will be free but printing it out will be almost as costly to the end user as buying a printed copy due to economy of scale and whatnot.

Character generation is important to impart upon new players and it has nothing at all to do with optimization or assembling mechanical tidbits. You roll stats, select a class/race, and equip the character. No matter how many or how few moving parts the character has the important bit is that it is YOURS.

Yeah, but the Pundit nailed it upthread (was it this thread?) The Starter really isn't for "us" and today's kids won't think twice about needing a PDF. My son doesn't take a book to bed with him. He takes his tablet.

As for myself, I'll buy the PH and assuming I like it enough to run it, I'll take out whatever bits I want, mash em up with whatever other gaming shit I please, and go from there.

Quote from: Warlord Kro;752998I was thinking about picking up the Starter Set, but it sounds like the free PDF is more like what I'd want to look over to decide about 5th.

It's still a little unclear from the announcement, but from this:



(Italics from the original, boldface is mine.)

It looks like their Basic D&D will be playable by itself.  Has anyone heard how long it is?  Page count wise?  They say it's 15% of the Player's Handbook and I guess a little of the Monster Manual  from what I bolded above, but I hadn't seen a page count yet.

I guess the one thing this (good) news doesn't do is make me any more interested in the Starter Set.

People have theorized it would be 15% of the PHB, DMG, and MM when finished so around 144ish pages long.

Quote from: Endless Flight;752746What if some kid's parents are really strict about computer access?

Those kids will get the Forbidden Things from their friends' houses, like they have since time immemorial.

Quote from: Marleycat;753014People have theorized it would be 15% of the PHB, DMG, and MM when finished so around 144ish pages long.

144 pages isn't too bad a length really - Moldvay, Cook, and Marsh did it in 128, but I guess six more levels could easily cost 16 pages.  

I like the sound of the 5th Ed "Basic D&D" product  so far - free, low page count, complete (by complete I mean playable) rules, not too fiddly.  Of course, there's no way to know if it'll be something I'd like until I actually pick it up.  But I am looking forward to that PDF release.

Quote from: Warlord Kro;753091144 pages isn't too bad a length really - Moldvay, Cook, and Marsh did it in 128, but I guess six more levels could easily cost 16 pages.  

I like the sound of the 5th Ed "Basic D&D" product  so far - free, low page count, complete (by complete I mean playable) rules, not too fiddly.  Of course, there's no way to know if it'll be something I'd like until I actually pick it up.  But I am looking forward to that PDF release.

How high did Moldvay go? Because when finished the BASIC rules allow for 1-20th level.

Moldvay (B of B/X) was 1-3, with Marsh/Cook (X of B/X) going from 4-14

I see where he got the numbers now thanks.