Quote from: Opaopajr;751416Also change out the XP system to allow more than one method of progress. Watch as players evolve from the same ol' same ol' to one where they choose to parley, bring hirelings, or try to rout opponents by shaking morale. It's dirt easy to accomplish as you merely need to strike things out and let the players know ahead of time the lowered importance of killing everything they see.

This. Also, just erase every spell above level 1. Make them research anything higher. It'll keep magic down when it costs 9,000 GP or whatever to learn Fireball since they won't have money to go to Ye Olde Magic Shoppe.


Also, put me down for another vote for E6.  It's brilliance is getting rid of the quadratic wizards.

Quote from: Thanos;751392I kinda like d100.

That would be my top choice for non-D&D fantasy.

Openquest for no-frills d100 fantasy gaming. Runequest 6 for something a tad crunchier (still not nearly as crunchy as high-level 3.5e).

Both have a very modular approach to magic, i.e. play just fine without it.

Low magic?

AD&D: with the magic users and priests either toned down massively, or relegated to NPC/Villain status. If you ever played D&D with a DM who was VERY stingy with magic items and spells then the game defaulted to low magic right out the gate. The early B and BX boxed sets moreso as Clerics didnt even start with spells and magic users started with all of 1 and it might be random.

TSR's Conan RPG seems tailor made for that. Never had a chance to look at it though so cannot say how well it does the job.

The Fantasy Trip: Another one where toning down the wizards is the key.

Tunnels & Trolls: ditto.

Tekimel/EPT: ditto too.

If you want ease of play with less footwork to deal with then Id personally  go with BX D&D, followed by The Fantasy Trip, followed by Tunnels & Trolls.

3.5 D&D will work ok if you cut out all the caster classes, maybe keep the NPC Adept class and let PCs access it. PCs can do plenty of damage without magic gear. Of course the Challenge Ratings will be off for magic-less parties, if you want to keep CR you'd need to add around +1/3 to listed CR, so eg CR 3 > CR 4, CR 12 > CR 16, CR 15 > CR 20. It might be nearer +1/2, you'd need to get a feel for that in play, but starting at 1st level you shouldn't have major problems. Don't start this at 12th level.

3.5 monsters aren't usually unhittable without magic; they usually need special materials to bypass Damage Reduction, which you can make available.

Suitable PC classes for a low magic campaign:

Non-caster:

Fighter
Rogue
Barbarian
Monk

Optionally you could allow limited casters:

Paladin
Ranger

3e tends to work best when cut down anyway. Obviously published adventures would need adjusting, but I suspect this would actually work a lot better at high level than regular 3e does.

3e's regular healing rate of 1 hp/level/day should be plenty for a Conanesque setting. If you want extended dungeon delving you could either increase the healing rate, or have access to some magical healing through potions, fountains etc.

Of course RuneQuest 6. Also it has RuneQuest Classic Fantasy coming out. So you can play low fantasy, without classes. Have gritty, deadly (although fun) combat, and still use D&D magic items!

E.g., and from its creator Rod: "Treasure! This is why you kill those monsters in the first place. Vorpal swords, bags of holding, rings of protection, and +5 suits of plate"

Arcana Rising is notably lower magic than core D&D3 by far. Spells top out at level 6 and learning new ones requires weeks of research even from found scrolls, magic items are rare and more or less priceless, and casting pools are fairly limited.

Especially if you barred wizard/cleric PCs, or capped their natural spell learning, it'd do the trick.

BRP (also RQ2) or TFT should work fine

I don't get it.


I am not a huge fan of 3x dnd, but why can't it be low magic?

Just have items appear in the quantity and quality you desire.

I'd second Harn... as my first choice ...because gritty uber-detailed combat resolution.

The Original Redbook Chivalry & Sorcery  ...just without the sorcery.

Fantasy Craft would be a more modern rules set that would work well for a low magic setting as well.

Quote from: Bill;751536I don't get it.


I am not a huge fan of 3x dnd, but why can't it be low magic?

Just have items appear in the quantity and quality you desire.

A lot of the numbers at the high-end are balanced with the expectation that PCs will be swimming in magical gear by the time they get to high level.

PCs without magical assistance will find higher HD/level challenges almost insurmountable without assistance from magical loot, and some creatures even at the low level can't be harmed at all without magical weapons.

Non-magical classes in particular will have a very rough row to hoe, and in a low magic setting, that's pretty much gonna be everyone in the party.

Not so fun.

Quote from: GameDaddy;751547I'd second Harn... as my first choice ...because gritty uber-detailed combat resolution.

And very playable due to a well designed character sheet and combat card.

The biggest hurdle people have in understanding how it works is the utter lack of hit points. When you take injury, it lowers you skill and characteristics rolls. Also each injury has a "bad result" that you have to save again. Most of the time is just to see if you stumble, fumble, or get knocked out. But severe injuries can result in crippling injuries, amputations, and instant deaths.

Character creations is no more complex than Runequest and other d100. The only odd mechanic is figuring out skill bases. Skill bases are an average of three attributes. After that all your pre-game advancement is handled by multiples of the skill base. So if you were a town guardsmen you may start out with a broadsword skill equal to 4 times your skill base. If your skill base is 15 your broadsword skill will be 60%.

Quote from: J Arcane;751550A lot of the numbers at the high-end are balanced with the expectation that PCs will be swimming in magical gear by the time they get to high level.

So just don't use those monsters that require/make magic attacks... having a 'low magic' campaign would seem to also forgo a lot of overtly magical creatures...
Or just drop the requirement that they can only be hit by magic weapons.

Quote from: Simlasa;751599So just don't use those monsters that require/make magic attacks... having a 'low magic' campaign would seem to also forgo a lot of overtly magical creatures...
Or just drop the requirement that they can only be hit by magic weapons.

That only fixes the literal case of DR issues.

The math on higher level monsters is still such that a mundane-equipped character is not going to be victorious. They are going to die. repeatedly.

I've seen it in play. It's not pretty. By the time you strip out all the magic, and all the monsters you can't use anymore because there's no magic, there's not much left of D20. By the book, it just doesn't work.

So I guess you can't go by the DR ratings... and the stats are too complex to judge how deadly the creature is just by looking at them?
Except for playing in a Pathfinder game I don't know shit about D20.

Quote from: Simlasa;751609So I guess you can't go by the DR ratings... and the stats are too complex to judge how deadly the creature is just by looking at them?
Except for playing in a Pathfinder game I don't know shit about D20.

It's not difficult to re-rank Monster Challenge Rating. Monster stats are designed around the assumed progression of magic items, mostly magic weapons, armour, resistance items, and attribute boosters. Strip those out and it looks to me that you need to multiply listed regular CR by around 4/3, maybe by as much as 3/2.