Quote from: Votan;678689Complexity of stat blocks slows play and puts the emphasis on the wrong things.  It also led to all sorts of oddities (polymorph, anyone) since the focus was on the mechanics and not the way that the creature makes the adventure interesting (aka ecology).  

I did like how 4E managed to work in all of the relevant material.  I do know that I am starting to find Pathfinder stat blocks hard to work with now that it is getting too hard to memorize all of the different feats and they are scattered across many books.  I'd almost rather lose the space than need to make extensive notes for half of the encounters in an adventure path.

I went from liking pathfinder to loathing it the more I ran it. Why?

Useless overly complicated stat blocks.

I prefer simple statblocks.

Memorizing feat combinations and all that crap, multiple attacks, etc...is just a distraction from the actual game.

Th stat block was most sublime as a stat line. It is hard to improve upon elegance.

Quote from: Opaopajr;678906Th stat block was most sublime as a stat line. It is hard to improve upon elegance.

Yup.  I like the "Stat blocks" in G1, myself: This room contains 12 trolls (HP: 36, 29, 27, 25, 21, -) (and so on)...and then notes their treasure.  A quick glance at the Monster Manual during game prep tells you what you need to know : regenerate 3hp/round after the 3rd round, don't regenerate acid and fire damage, can reattach severed limbs, are 6+6hd monsters...and you're alls et.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;678913Yup.  I like the "Stat blocks" in G1, myself: This room contains 12 trolls (HP: 36, 29, 27, 25, 21, -) (and so on)...and then notes their treasure.  A quick glance at the Monster Manual during game prep tells you what you need to know : regenerate 3hp/round after the 3rd round, don't regenerate acid and fire damage, can reattach severed limbs, are 6+6hd monsters...and you're alls et.

I dislike referring to the MM in play. I prefer the method used in adventures like Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, where the body of the adventure only shows your troll format above, but there's a page at the back of the book with the full stats for all of the monsters in the adventure. Then you can tear out or copy that page and have it as a handy one-stop reference.

Quote from: Haffrung;678917I dislike referring to the MM in play. I prefer the method used in adventures like Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, where the body of the adventure only shows your troll format above, but there's a page at the back of the book with the full stats for all of the monsters in the adventure. Then you can tear out or copy that page and have it as a handy one-stop reference.

Me as well.  That was one thing I didn't like about the old modules.  After a while you have everything memorized anyway, but I didn't like having to flip to a different book.  I much prefer the key stats of a monster to be included in the adventure encounter.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;678913Yup.  I like the "Stat blocks" in G1, myself: This room contains 12 trolls (HP: 36, 29, 27, 25, 21, -) (and so on)...and then notes their treasure.  A quick glance at the Monster Manual during game prep tells you what you need to know : regenerate 3hp/round after the 3rd round, don't regenerate acid and fire damage, can reattach severed limbs, are 6+6hd monsters...and you're alls et.

Say what?

You mean you're not a fan of :

TROLL HOBBITHUMPER (Large Perverted Humaniod)

AC 26,  FORT 23,  REF 16, WILL 13 HP 225

At-Will Claw 1d12 +6

Encounter Bite 3d10+4

Encounter Rear violation (Recharge 1-2) : 1d10 +STR modifier damage and target is appalled. Save ends.

Biggest thing that will make me ignore a new module is if it does not have essential monster data in the module.

I get really annoyed when I see "3 Trolls; MM page 101"  Gee thanks.

My optimal preference is how some of the AD&D modules did

trolls, 2ea (HP: 36, 39   AC: 5   AT: 3   Dmg: 1d8/1d8/1d12   SA: n/a   SD: regen 3 hp/rnd   SA: F6,   XP: 450)



I just made those numbers up, but you get the point.  Nothing huge or space wasting, but having key stats right there.

BROMUTH THE ORC: SZ M; MV 90 ft.; AC 6; HD 1; HP 7; #AT 1; DMG 1-6 spear. 12 GP, 15 SP carried.

Can't beat that, IMO.

Agreed, that format is perfect.

Quote from: Benoist;678929BROMUTH THE ORC: SZ M; MV 90 ft.; AC 6; HD 1; HP 7; #AT 1; DMG 1-6 spear. 12 GP, 15 SP carried.

Can't beat that, IMO.

Yep. Back when GMing 2e I found writing up monster stats to be incredibly fast and Easy whereas 3e had me looking up the MM (and other books) all the time, not to mention that creating scenarios for 3e was way more work (and the fact that 3e's balance issues Are completely different from 2e's (wich I don't have an issue with)).

The FR clusterfuck aside, it'll be interesting to see how the "adventures designed for multiple systems" works out for them. I know that, IME, the mechanical differences between pre-4E and 4E made it very difficult to run adventures designed for the former in the latter (and vice versa) without a significant loss of quality.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;678472I can hear the gnashing of teeth already.  Christ, with this new packet, they changed some of the monsters from having the spell description included as a power like in 4e, to just a list of spells per level/typical spells memorized and people are losing their shit over it.

That's unsurprising. Including all the information necessary to use a monster in the monster's stat block is a huge boon to utility.

The mistake is believing that you have to choose between:

(a) Not including that information, or
(b) Making every monster power a unique, special snowflake

The correct course of action is to reuse common abilities (so that they can be learned and mastered across multiple creatures) while also including all the immediately pertinent information in the stat block.

Quote from: The Ent;679037Yep. Back when GMing 2e I found writing up monster stats to be incredibly fast and Easy whereas 3e had me looking up the MM (and other books) all the time, not to mention that creating scenarios for 3e was way more work (and the fact that 3e's balance issues Are completely different from 2e's (wich I don't have an issue with)).

This, of course, is just nonsense. I will never comprehend the mindset that in AD&D you could just use the default orc out of the Monster Manual, but in 3E the WotC Gaming Police would break your kneecaps if you didn't fully customized ever stat block in your home campaign.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;679108This, of course, is just nonsense. I will never comprehend the mindset that in AD&D you could just use the default orc out of the Monster Manual, but in 3E the WotC Gaming Police would break your kneecaps if you didn't fully customized ever stat block in your home campaign.

I find that it's better not to put words that are only visible to you between the words that you're quoting. Works wonders.

Unless you're pissed of course, then it's fair game.

Quote from: The_Rooster;678328Whenever there are these 'interactive' events that dictate a story in something, usually a TV series, I always cringe. It's like asking, "What is the worst possible idea that we could implement?"

From Where No Man Has Gone Before, the (unlicensed) d20 RPG for Classic Star Trek:

Ratings And The Rule Of Those Who Must Be Obeyed.
After every episode, roll a die to find out how the show did in the ratings war, or simply assign one based on a snap value
judgment or show of hands: 1d6, 1 - Terrible (-4), 2 - Poorly (-2), 3 - 4 Average, 5 - Successful (+2), 6 - Smashing Success (+4). Then roll again with a d20 to find out if the Network Executives plan to do something about it, adding in the bonuses given in parentheses.
If the roll is greater than 19 or less than 2, roll on the table (d20) below to see what dreadful changes are
wrought. If the ratings were good, the players have veto power on the first roll (but must accept the second result).

Monkey sidekick.
Crew member fired and replaced by (roll d6: 1-2 member of opposite sex, 3-4 member of different ethnic group, 5-6 new species). New crew member will be as nearly identical to original character as possible, save for the different race/sex/ethnic group.
Costume changes.
Kid sidekick.
Laugh track added/removed.
Show needs more cowboys.
New love interest for random character.
Show too confusing--narrator added.
Budget cuts--scripts now recycled from old Shakespeare plays and "I Love Lucy" episodes
for the next 1d6 episodes.
More budget cuts--for the next d6 episodes, sets will be recycled from (roll randomly each episode, 1d6: 1 Roman set, 2 cowboys and Indians, 3 war movies, 4 "modern" 60's era set, 5
gangster movie, 6 H. R. Puf'n'stuff).
Show not sexy enough--short skirts and bulging chests for everyone.
Show too sexy. Tone it down or face the consequences.
Networks demand that every episode have an explicit moral.
Hot shot actor/actress makes cameo. Choose one at random. Bonus points for bad caricatures and impressions.
Show not British enough.
Show too British, make it more French.
Show needs to be more educational.
Show not religious enough, Jesus added as new character.
Annoying robot sidekick added.
Roll twice.

Quote from: The Ent;679037Yep. Back when GMing 2e I found writing up monster stats to be incredibly fast and Easy whereas 3e had me looking up the MM (and other books) all the time, not to mention that creating scenarios for 3e was way more work (and the fact that 3e's balance issues Are completely different from 2e's (wich I don't have an issue with)).

After writing the revised Thieves of Badabaskor for Goodman Games I never want to write another 3e style stat block again. Talk about being picky and detailed obsessed. Hell even GURPS doesn't have as complicated stat blocks as 3e.